You know, Jonathan, you told me a while ago that the world could throw anything at you, 20 collections a season or whatever, you can do it all. You're in this situation now where you actually have that place. How do you feel right now?
Climatizing. I think you probably got me on a very good day when I said that. I'm getting there. It's taking time. When you go into a new business, you're trying to understand it, the people, the flow. But this year I feel way more at one with it.
I am now coming to the end of the cycle of doing everything for the first time. It's frustrating when there's no product in store to argue against. Now since the beginning of the year, products are in store, so I can see what works, what doesn't, what resonates. It feels more rewarding, it's real.
Do you check the numbers every day? Do you look at that?
I don't. But I always go into stores to see the vibe. I find it fascinating watching people shop. With couture, you get instant feedback from clients, not just the press. So tell me about that experience.
That is a sort of pinnacle of the Dior pyramid. That is where it all comes from.
This was very daunting. I had never done it. The client is mystical, you have to sell all the looks. It's a completely different genre. But I found it exciting. I redid the showroom into a kind of wonder where you could buy different things. It felt like meeting Mr. Dior, buying one singular thing. It's like the film Mrs. Harris Goes to Paris.
Fashion itself is having this struggle with relevance, isn't it?
Some very strange alchemy happened during the couture shows. Suddenly couture seemed the most relevant kind of fashion, which is very odd.
Because I've been looking at it, trying to understand it.
I think couture has the purest form of fashion. It's done by hand, no sewing machine. It can engage a larger audience as spectacle. People like the narrative. That puts you in dialogue with Mr. Dior himself. How did you find that? It's a very different relationship for you.
In my previous job, there wasn't that. It was a manufacturing company, a unit of people. At Dior, you're up against multiple legacies. Legacies forgotten, well-known, current, past. You're dealing with odd voices of the brand itself. The legacy of Dior the museum, the fashion book, Saleron, Mark Bowen, John Galliano. Each generation has a different vision of Dior. Some know it from perfume, some from film, some from John Galliano mania. You're trying to find a doorway through it. Did your attitude change from the first show with Adam Curtis to the couture?
To the couture, which was an embrace of beauty I haven't seen you do before. It felt like a definite shift.
It was definitely a shift. But for me, it's about how long you're there. Women's was done in 27 days. Couture I had time to get into the company, understand, meet people. Now I know who does the jacket. Before it was just where is it coming from.
Yes, in the beginning it was very hard. You're juggling multiple plates, dealing with the outside world. The key is to always know where you're going. No one else does. You have to keep going because you subconsciously do what is right.
When you say what is right, do you mean for Dior or for you?
And what's that dynamic now?
I'm at one with that. Last year I was in big conflict, trying to break the cycle, break the brand. This year I feel like I'm walking beside it. The first show, as confusing as it was, was the right show. Everyone has an opinion. You listen to Jane from Inverness, then wake up thinking maybe Jane's right.
How do you hear Jane from Inverness? You see everything. You have to trust the process.
Of change. Change means conflict. You have to say this is the line, we're going this way. It takes time for people to climatize.
So you have to assert yourself.
You have to be like that.
Because Dior is not just a fashion house, it's a cultural totem.
It's one of the pillars of France.
So asserting yourself requires forcefulness. You must have to fight.
It's not about fighting. You have to become stealth. Always remember the end goal and not change midway. How's your French?
I'm really bad at French. I was bad at GCSE.
So the Frenchness of Dior is another thing.
I quite like Frenchness as a historical thing. Christian Dior was obsessed with the 18th century. I'm obsessed with English 18th century. They are similar. French furniture is more gilded, over the top. British is cruder, bigger. I like the meeting of the two. He was an Anglophile, into English art, furniture, houses, aristocrats. There's a romance in that.
Do you find a surprising compatibility when you're in Paris, working in this center of French culture? Are you conscious of a performance element?
There's a role you have to play.
I don't go in as the couturier in the morning. It's very rag trade, ongoing. The difference is when you go to a restaurant or walk down the street. Paris is smaller than London, so you deal with more recognition. It takes time to get used to.
Shy and retiring? Or you're animated on the phone. You realize you can't be loud. That takes getting used to.
How do you cope with that? You're in an ambassadorial role.
My father was a rugby player. I remember going to matches and people asking for his autograph. I found it embarrassing. It would take forever to leave. Fashion has changed drastically in the last 50 years. It became part of the entertainment business. That's where I struggled last year. It was like a TV show, everyone wondering who's going to the next house. It was intense. Not until the women's show did I realize when the assistant to Christian Dior came backstage and wished me luck. That was the moment I thought this is a nightmare. The men's show was calm, like two paintings in a room. The anticipation of women's was exciting. Two of the biggest houses changing at the same time.
