It's funny how the internet now, everybody can comment on everything. Every technology cycle to me is increasingly harder because you're probably going into a different part of how the human mind operates. Right now we're like developing personality. That's insane. There's technology, there's culture, which is collective, and then there's our individual progress as a human species. Culture is changing. Technology is improving. Where are we as people?
I can't believe the scale at which we're at now. Like, this is absolutely unbelievable. I was at OpenAI. We were discussing a bunch of things around how do you think about personality development of models, and these are really technically hard problems. I think the number one challenge, even OpenAI mentioned, is that how do we make the power of the models more easily accessible and useful in terms of what they can do. And I think this is happening with agents, but it still seems very primitive and very inaccessible to a lot of individuals. I think that the number one way you change the NPS of AI is you make important things cheap quickly.
Here live with Signal, the great culture commentator of our time. You have opinions on everything from, you know, what's happening in AI both as a consumer but also the industry, to what's happening in all the big tech companies, to what's happening in dating markets more broadly, to how the product should be developed. There's no commentator like you. There's no sort of... how do you sort of make sense of yourself on the internet in terms of how you thread these topics together? What sort of threads it all?
I mean, I could have an opinion on Iran and dating at the same time.
Maybe even Iranian dating.
Like, you're like, by the way, how does it work there? Are they using Tinder? Like, I don't know. I mean, uh, there's probably several jokes about Ter about love bombing and stuff. All right.
I apologize. Okay. I have this weird tendency to where I like to... I like to add humor into things that are not inappropriate. Anyway, I think, look, it's funny how the internet now, everybody can comment on everything.
There's a lot of people that have a great perspective in a singular dimension. You've got Ben Thompson writing about technology and markets, and if you want to have an analysis of an earnings report of Microsoft, I mean, who better in the world than Ben Thompson? I mean, you could... you can PY writes about deep tech and crazy, I think, 40-page papers about industries and things, and really fun to read, really great things. What I noticed is like, I've been in technology for such a long time, since I was a kid, and I'm particularly fascinated with culture in general as well. And I think that intersection of tech and culture is so fascinating to me. And I like to relate everything back to computer science and how I've learned about the world through computer science and computers in general. And I think all my tweets and things are really in essence relating the idea of life to technology and culture to technology in maybe an interesting... or that's how my mind works. I think my writing is all a reflection of the prompts that happen in my brain that get translated somehow into words that are in the right order that other people can interpret and therefore have a reaction to and maybe generate a little bit of hate online or a little bit of love. And I think that's actually quite beautiful that we're all...
That's the most poetic thing I've ever heard about.
I do have a Shakespeare profile photo.
And, you know, I think that's been great. I grew up playing a game called Sim City, and in Sim City you can increase the simulation speeds. There's a button that allows you to increase the simulation of the city, and the cars move faster, and the people move faster, and the disasters happen faster, and everything is just increased. And I feel like in the recent... maybe obviously in the last 20 years with respect to iPhone and whatnot, but man, in the last 2, 3, 4 years, holy [__], who the hell hit the 100x speed?
Yeah. Like, it feels ridiculous. Like, if I talk to somebody that something happened last... like last month, it feels like it happened like 10 years ago. Like, Nicolas Maduro got pulled from Venezuela and brought to America in the most amazing outfit, and people forgot about this.
Like, it's just incredibly fascinating the way that the world is moving so fast and technology is accelerating that. I think if you were... if it's the fuel that is empowering that engine, and I don't know what we did, but it's moving really, really fast. And then do you think if I was to almost separate the three ideas, you know, there's technology, there's culture, which is collective, and then there's a sort of however you measure our individual progress as a human species. Culture is changing, technology is improving. Where are we as people? Are we more spiritually mature, less spiritually mature than we were 50 years ago, 500 years ago, 5,000 years ago, or are we just basically, you know, Neanderthals with iPhones? I think generally technology should help us understand ourselves in a better way such that we are able to have intellectual, spiritual potential growth as a species, as a collective, and the individual, I suspect. And I think I firmly believe that I'm like pro-technology helping achieve that. I love using AI to be able to understand myself. Like, if I say something, it's like, wait, does this make sense? Is this more interesting? Like, how do I personally think about it? This is the way that I'm... what am I missing? And those are really things that help me grow intellectually, spiritually, personally, relationships, all of those things. So inherently, I mean, if I understand your question correctly, it's more like these things are really helping us experience ourselves much better. And I think that probably is the greatest achievement you can possibly have. I mean, we're tool builders, and every tool that we've ever built has helped us progress as a human species or individually, whether it's art or the wheel or whatever. And I can't believe the scale at which we're at now, right? Like, it's absolutely unbelievable. And I think what's shocking to me is that the collective has not caught on yet.
Do you think the norms around AI relationships with boyfriend, girlfriend, or just, you know, best friendships are going to be something in the next, you know, 5 to 10 years extreme to a degree that seems unimaginable right now for the average person? What do you think?
When you have ease of access and reward structures around it and a human desire paired with it that's deep, I think you get some interesting outcomes. And the desire and the pursuit of connection is an incredible and important element of any human's existence. And the idea that AI can help you facilitate that with depth and scale and ever-ending... like, AI doesn't get tired.
What else is surprising you most about how people are interacting with AI, particularly the different models, or what are you observing as you're looking at the landscape and trying to make sense of where things are going?
Well, first of all, I don't think most people are utilizing them anything beyond the basics. Like, it's fascinating to me that every single time we're focused on really advanced capability demonstration, like, holy crap, this is a PhD researcher or whatever, yet I don't think most people are utilizing in such a fashion, obviously. And I think most people are utilizing very, very, very basic tasks. And so I think we're in like the stone ages of how people view and perceive and use these things, even though there's a billion people utilizing them, but they're not utilizing to the full capabilities. Like, I think the number one challenge for even, I think OpenAI mentioned, is that how do we make this stuff, the power of the models, more easily accessible and useful in terms of what they can do. And I think this is happening with agents, it's happening today, but it still seems very primitive and very inaccessible to a lot of individuals. I think this... I personally like to think about this because the way that I like to think about the world, one of my favorite Shakespeare quotes, and this is why the Shakespeare picture exists, is, brevity is the soul of wit. And Shakespeare was able to capture an essence of the world in very simple... like, not simple terminology. Maybe, I don't know, back then it was simple, but in a few words or a few sentences. And I think we need to make this stuff much more easily accessible and useful for individuals. I don't know how that will be, what that will look like, but it's certainly something that I love to think about personally. And I don't know where we'll end up, but I view it more as an art than a science at the moment.
But it's cool. It's a fun time to exist as a technologist.
A lot of people are wondering what to even work on in the age of sort of the big labs. Like, what to start, how to think about what could be, you know, a real company versus something that they'll end up doing, or what's just worth doing. How have you thought about it, or how do you advise people to think about that? A lot of AI today is very much the big labs kind of are dominating consumer territory when it's OpenAI and Anthropic, and then tons and tons of people trying to find a business use case for it in various verticals.
It's interesting. I personally focus on what I'm passionate about. Like, I was at a demo day or whatever. There's a lot of individuals who I thought clearly they found the idea through AI to work on. It's fascinating. I was like, are you really interested in real estate? Like, I don't know. Do you want to spend your time working on this? And is this an interesting problem? Like, I don't think about it from a technology perspective. Like, screw AI. I don't care about... like, what area are you interested in? What thing drives you? Like, if I were an investor, I think that's probably the only thing that matters is like, are you going to keep going into this problem space if you're not that interested in it? Look, we're having a lot of fun doing this. And I think if you're not having a lot of fun doing stuff, you probably shouldn't work on it. It's something that... like, it's a privilege thing, obviously, and often a lot of people don't find work fun. They have to do it because it's economically necessary. But if you're going to build a company, try to have fun with it. There's a great quote in the Bhagavad Gita, which I read recently again, and it was like, you know, you're not entitled to the fruits of your labor. And I never think about the outcomes. I just try to figure out what I enjoy, what kind of... how much fun I like to have, and the problems that I like thinking about. I like... all this account that I have is just pure fun. Like, I really enjoy talking and thinking about this, and my brain prompts me to think about it.
We were talking about, you know, the real prompt is in your brain. Like, that is where it originates, and then you're translating that into some text that you're sending into AI where we call that a prompt. And sure, yeah, but like, without the spark in your existence and your inner self, nothing would happen.
This is some Rick Rubin [__] man.
It's true. Like, it's so true. Like, how... we should get you together, Rick.
This is why, you know, I think Rick Rubin... people made fun of him.
He's incredible because he was ahead of the curve.
And I think music is such a... I know, Anish, you're a giant, you know, you DJ music, but like, it's such a... you have to feel it.
Yeah, you have to feel it. And there's such an important element to it. I think when you're doing anything new, building a company, you have to feel it.
So, okay. So, I have a question for you. So, there's sort of two different archetypes of great consumer founders. Okay. I'd say there's the... maybe the modern archetype is somebody like, you know, Boris is working on Claude Code, or of course Dario, or, you know, Sam and some of his co-founders who are so extraordinarily technical. They're like willing these things into existence that were unimaginable 5 years ago. Okay. And that's great. And ChatGPT is the fastest product to what I think is a billion users, etc., etc. There's another archetype from the Web 2.0 days, right? These are like the gentle sort of consumer, I don't know, philosophers whose canvas was technology, right? Think Ev, think Kevin Rose. All these people were just cut from a different cloth, and they were perhaps more students of culture than technology. Okay. And you got two very different forms of types of companies, and I don't quite know where I'd put Zuck, but let's set him aside for a moment. Do you think that there's a preferred model? Is like, is the gentle builder more of a New York-informed model, and the technical builder is more of an SF-informed model? Is it just something that matches with the product cycle? Like, and then maybe talk a bit about what you think your strengths are and, you know, how it meets the moment.
