Hello and welcome to Tête-à-Tête, France 24's flagship interview show. Our guest today is Naguib Sawiris. He is the chairman of Orascom Investment Holding. Thank you very much for being our guest.
The war has been raging in the Strait of Hormuz, the Strait of Bab el-Mandeb. Do you fear a global economic meltdown because of that?
I think it's not about fear — it's happening. You know, I think it's happening because you have oil prices now at 100 dollars. You have the reserves from the United States coming back out, and Europe now is forced to take out from its own reserves. So it's very apparent that this is very dangerous. And I don't think that the world can sustain the status quo to year-end even. So I don't know if the economy can really sustain such a situation for too long.
Do you blame Iran or Donald Trump?
No, I don't want to blame one party and not blame the other party. I blame Iran because Iran has become a destabilizing power. I'm talking now from our interest in the region. So Iran has become a destabilizing power in the region, instead of bridging good relations with the Arab countries around it, they attack the Arab countries around them as a response to this war. But I also blame Israel and the United States for this war, which could have been avoided.
It's not a useless war because there was a real danger of Iran owning a nuclear bomb, and that would be not good even for the Arab countries, not just for Israel and the region. But I think that if this war wouldn't have happened, I think the Iranian people were demonstrating enough courage and revolting against this regime. I think this regime could have fallen on its own without the $40 billion we spent on war, without all the casualties, without all the disruption of the economies of the region. Now Saudi Arabia, the Emirates, Bahrain, Kuwait, Egypt were all suffering from this war that we were not part of.
You have a major real estate investment in the UAE. You just mentioned that the economy is in trouble there. However, it seems that you still want to be there, and even more. Why would you invest in a country that is in the situation we just discussed?
For two reasons. It's one of the most developed countries in terms of governance, in terms of facilities, in terms of lifestyle, in terms of the rule of law and order, in terms of easy travel and easy living. The quality of life is one of the best in the world. And the leadership there has proven to be one of the wisest, the most well-prepared governments in the region. You know, one thing you have to say: one of the surprises of this war is how strong the Emirates was able to defend its borders. They have a 97% success rate on all the missiles and the drones that were thrown at them. So it shows it's very well prepared. And that's because they've invested in technology. It's one of the most technologically advanced Arab countries in the region. So for me, I see...
In the middle of a war, as we just discussed. But you think it's a good investment opportunity.
Actually, if you can be in the middle of a war and you can defend yourself that well, you're giving me comfort that this war is not going to influence you. And as an investor, I actually doubled my investment, knowing that this is the best time for many reasons, because now I will get good conditions. They will appreciate very much my investment. But I also want to demonstrate to the aggressors — I consider Iran as the aggressor — in the case of the Emirates, that you're not going to scare us. We're going to continue. You will not be able to... You see, I feel the Iranians were also very jealous of the progress of the Emirates, of the life they have created for the people. Many Iranians live there. Yes. So they see this life and they compare it to what's happening in their homes, where you used to kill women who just didn't have the veil on their head, or you used to put all the money into creating an army in Iraq, an army in Lebanon, an army in Syria, an army in Yemen, instead of trying to spend the money on your people, on elevating their lifestyle.
What is the economic and social situation in Egypt? We've seen the government, the president, be very bullish about these mega projects, especially the new capital. I understand that you have serious doubts about what it means for the debt of the country and its future.
No, what's done is done. I mean, we've invested too much in mega projects. The only ones which, in my personal opinion, are bringing in short-term returns are the roads and the bridges that have been built. But also upgrading the railway. But some of the projects were too huge and too big to be financed on short-term cash, on short-term loan. So I believe we have to deal now with this current debt. That's the biggest problem we have now, to see how we are going to repay this big debt.
You went to Syria a few weeks ago. You met the new president, Ahmed al-Sharaa. You obviously had big fights with the previous regime. You had an investment in telecom that you claim was seized. You've been asking for compensation.
There was a court order that said it was seized and I was robbed of my...
