Steve Wozniak, thank you very much for joining us here at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation and Institute. Is it okay if I call you Woz?
Wonderful. Well, thank you, Woz. We really appreciate the time. Let's dive right in. You and Steve Jobs were among those who received the first ever National Medals of Technology from President Reagan in 1985 at the White House, the highest US honor for achievement in technological progress. And today, the story continues with the workers who built the computer in a child's room. The engineers who designed the communications satellite that silently rotates with the Earth, shining in the sunlight against the blackness of space, and the men and women of skill and determination who helped to put American footprints on the moon. And you are heroes, each one of you. You just as surely as were Thomas Edison and Alexander Graham Bell. And next, we have a couple of old-timers. Steven P. Jobs and Steven G. Wozniak, Apple Computer Incorporated, for their vision and foresight in the development and introduction of the personal computer which has sparked the birth of a new industry extending the power of the computer to individual users. Mr. Jobs and Mr. Wozniak.
[Applause] So, what do you remember about that moment? And how meaningful was it to you personally and professionally?
Well, I was kind of young and naive all my life, so little immature, and I didn't know what real big time awards, ceremonies, and galas were and things like that. I didn't go to, wasn't part of my life. So, whoa. It was really more an adventure of getting to see how it's done and listening to an explanation of what the National Medal of Technology was about. And I was seated at a table right next to the vice president, George Bush. And actually, we talked spoke quite a bit and I became a good friend of mine. I liked him all to this day. As far as getting the medal, Steve and I, Apple had been so instrumental in the press that it was obvious that technology was going to be a big part of the future. And I am so glad that the president and his group recognized that technology was important and to give awards for it that helped it actually helped bring it aware to more people that technology was going to be a big thing.
Well, let me follow up on that because President Reagan championed innovation and technological progress during the 1980s. So from your perspective at the time and looking back from today's vantage point, much later of course, how do you see the Reagan administration's support of the tech industry? How did it affect things? Did it affect your own work at Apple?
Well, it's hard to say. You know, back then I'd get an award and I'd almost not remember. Although when people ask, have you ever had any awards? That's always like the first one that comes out. So it was very important and it was like a new thing. It was like getting the National Science Award or something and a lot of people heard about it and respected it and said, 'Oh my gosh, maybe if I do some great things, I can get that award someday.' So, I think it actually did spur advances in technology just by having the award. Eventually, by the way, for some years, I was actually on the committee that decided who was going to get nominated or get the awards, the National Medal of Technology.
Well, the interview we're conducting today has many Apple products that are actually a key part of the technology behind how we're doing this interview. And you famously built the Apple 1 and Apple 2. By the way, I had an Apple 2 growing up as a kid. But you built the Apple 1 and the Apple 2 in a home garage doing both the hardware and the software yourself with little to no money. At what point did you realize that making computers user friendly, something you originally did for yourself, could become a business that would change the world?
The garage was used for a little bit of transfer of materials later on, but everything was designed totally in my apartment and my cubicle at Hewlett-Packard. You know, the fact is when I was in high school I taught myself to design computers. You couldn't find a book on it. Even in a scientific bookstore like Kepler's in Palo Alto, you couldn't find a book talking about computer design. I taught myself, I was so proud of it, something I loved doing. It was my passion for life. I told my father someday I'm going to have a 4K Data General Nova computer for myself and he said it costs as much as a house. I was stunned and I said I'll live in an apartment. In other words, it was a deep goal in mind to have a computer for myself, but that also meant user friendly. I went up through Pong games, designing Breakout for Atari, getting on the Arpanet with a little terminal that had a keyboard and a video display before computers did and before anyone was talking about it. And this was ease of use. It was a humanness to me. First of all, the other people trying to make maybe an industry about people could afford their own computers someday. They were all computer type people. They liked the old computer society and switches and lights like you see on TV. And that's how it was. But man, I was just past that because I didn't have friends. I didn't do things with other people. I did them all on my own. And I just thought out, you know, it's so nice to type something and see a response from a computer right in front of you and then eventually build your own computer onto it. I knew that my designs were so far ahead of what other people were trying that we would have a successful business of our own. But my intent was not to create an industry. My intent was not to create a company. It was just to get my computer designs out to the world. And I wanted more than anything else engineers to look over my designs on paper and say, 'Whoa, you know, see the genius that was in them.' That's really what my big motivation was. A few other companies saw the Apple 2 was the leader and eventually kind of came on board but not quite, more like just play game machines, nothing else.
Well, despite changing the world, despite those humble origins, you did say in an interview that you had two things in your favor. They're kind of non-intuitive. One is that you had no money and you had no training. So can you elaborate on that and how those were things in your favor?
Yes, I would sit down with a piece of paper and an idea of a way to build a computer or any other project. I did a lot of electronic projects in those days, including the first hotel movie system. But I'd sit down on paper and start drawing what chips might have the technology that would build up to my idea, my final product. And one of the things is having no money forced me to only think of things I could afford. And that meant very low-cost parts and I could get a lot from my company Hewlett-Packard where I worked and it made it affordable. A lot of my designs that, whoa, you really cut this out. You made it so much smaller than the normal way. I was glad for that because no money also. I had no training, but I had a brain and I had all my life come about thinking of things so different, so out of the box of other people that I could take on a project, for example, the floppy disc. So you could type run a program. You couldn't do that before, even on the Apple 2, run a program. And I had no experience with disk hardware or software. And it forced me to say, how can I design it the best in the world that nothing could be better? How can I make it the fewest parts? And I don't know what it is. So when I finished and I had eight chips, I thought, oh, all these other products that are out there that have 50 chips, including a huge big complex one doing the whole job, I said, they must be doing more than me. And then I studied the others after that, and I found out mine's doing even more. Gives me more ability to increase speed and increase that. It all came. Mine was just a different approach that had ever been done, even on floppy discs. So, I don't know. It gives you a kind of an internal pride. Yeah. As far as that floppy disc, that was my only key to getting to Las Vegas with the company. When they first allowed personal computers into the Consumer Electronics Show, I wanted to go to Las Vegas, but they were only going to send three marketing people, not an engineer. And I raised my hand and said, 'If we have a floppy disc, can we show it?' So, if I got it developed in two weeks, which is unbelievable, then they'd have to take me. I'd be the only one that knew how it worked. So, it got me to Vegas.
Well, that's a perfect springboard to the next question because you're the legendary inventor and innovator. And Steve Jobs was the marketing expert who knew how to sell what you created. And next year marks the 50th anniversary of Apple's founding. So, looking back, how would you describe the significance of your partnership with Steve Jobs? You and here are two very different but complimentary minds coming together to spark a revolution in technology.
Well, first of all, when I met Steve Jobs, I could design computers. I didn't meet anybody. I was so shy. I had no friends really. And he, I could tell he appreciated my abilities to design computers. So, we became best technical friends for the next five years up to the start of Apple. And every once in a while he'd come into town, see a latest invention of mine and go out and sell it. He was a good salesman. And marketing wise though, I'll tell you after Apple started with the Apple 2 computer, my computer, that was the only thing that the only successful product and computer Apple had for the next 10 years that made money. And so he was starting a company with a great product. And he was a good salesman. He tried to do marketing and create here's what the next computer should be. Here's what the next computer should be. And he didn't come from a technical background. So they all failed. They all failed. But thank God he got the word out. He expressed the word about my Apple 2 computer so well. He really did a great job. And that's how we worked together. Never ever an argument. We were just complimentary friends. I sat in engineering. I didn't want to talk to the press. Steve wanted to be very well known as the mind behind computers and he got what he wanted and I got what I wanted.
Fascinating. Well, you've always been known as a guy who likes to have fun, especially using technology. Is it true that you once used a homemade device to call the Vatican and ask to speak to the Pope pretending to be Henry Kissinger? And what's the story behind that? And do you have a good Henry Kissinger impersonation?
