Women in Brazil work above all on public policies, because public policies are what change the country, and there's nothing better than working without corruption to implement public policies. Hello, I'm journalist Marília Argolo and this is another episode of Esfera Cast. Our guest today is Luiza Helena Trajano, president of the Board of Directors of Magazine Luiza and the Women of Brazil Group. Ms. Luiza, thank you so much for accepting our invitation to participate in Esfera Cast. How are you? That's great, congratulations on the house, it's super cool.
You are an important figure in the market and also an influencer, especially now during COP 30. Could you tell us a little about Brazilian women and their participation in this global event?
Well, first it's good to put the context of women in Brazil, right? The group has been around for 12 years and has almost 140,000 women worldwide, including here in Belém, in Manaus, everywhere. And we work on many causes, one of which is sustainability. And I also think that these very important events that come to Brazil to put Brazil on the international stage, like the Olympics where I was vice-president and the COP, are very important. Women in Brazil work above all on public policy, because public policy is what changes the country, and there's nothing better than working on public policy than that. So here we are working on a letter together with everyone, about women's rights, which will be delivered at the end, but it's not just a letter, it's a set of actions that we ask be taken so that all types of women, including indigenous, black, and all types, we are also carrying out various actions against violence against women, which is something that happens all over the world. All the countries listed here have violence against women. It's the only cause that exists everywhere. So we're working on it, and we're going to have a day at the theater on the 14th, where we'll be working all day on sustainability issues, our responsibility towards this wonderful nature on the 14th.
Great. How has the applicability of this gender equality you mentioned been in the Brazilian labor market, especially regarding women, which we are discussing here?
You know it's much better than we expected. Even I tell women and black people that we've changed cycles. We still have many achievements to make. Our goal is to have 50% women in senior management positions, but we've already achieved that, we just managed to get the Senate and Congress to approve quotas for women on the boards of mixed-capital companies and public companies. 30%, of course it will be gradual. So I think we've achieved much greater things than in other countries, perhaps. So we've been feeling, I don't know if it's because of the unity we have today, not only within the Women of Brazil group, but also with other groups, we've achieved much more than we ever imagined in a shorter period of time than we expected.
And what is your assessment of the equal pay law between men and women?
Well, I'm saying that for all other causes, like violence, like other causes, you say: 'Oh, he inherited it, no, his mother, his father beat him.' You may look for an unacceptable justification, but you do look. Now I'm saying that the difference there is a matter of pen, it's not a matter of culture or of being passed down from father to son. No father, no grandfather, no woman would want their granddaughter, their daughter to earn 20% or 30% less because she is a woman. So that's unacceptable to me. There is no reason whatsoever that justifies this. I am very clear about this.
How has it been in your market?
Look, I can tell you, I'm doing well. I was the only woman several times when I started out, and I can tell you that, first of all, women are very good friends with other women. The idea that women aren't friends with other women isn't true. We have sisterhood, right? Very. From me, as a 10-year-old child, to an 80-year-old lady, everyone says: 'Wow, thank you so much for everything you do as a woman.' Secondly, I think I also understand many men who lived in a very mechanical era, where they couldn't say they didn't know, couldn't say their children were sick, because you have to be professional. And we've already managed to do that, because we didn't have as much power in this era, we were able to be much more organic than in today's market. So, it's still a big struggle, but we've already overcome many barriers and today we have many men helping us, which is very important. Even in our company, we have many men who help fight violence, who work towards this goal because they have daughters, grandchildren, and they have also evolved.
Now, you belong to a generation that you yourself mentioned, one of those men who often still have a different way of thinking than what we are experiencing now. And how was that whole process for you, trying to assert yourself while women were arriving and you were an entrepreneur?
Well, I was born into a situation where my mother didn't say, 'Oh, you're going to quit your job and leave your child.' So I don't fight so hard for the woman because of myself. There's something else, I'm an only child, so everywhere I go I have good self-esteem. Everywhere I went, people would leave me like that, especially when I came to São Paulo—I'm from the countryside—I'd say, 'You should listen to me because I have a good idea.' So, I wasn't angry, but I also didn't take home what I didn't think I should confront. So I spoke, but I realized very early on that the struggle of women, first of all, the presence of women alongside men—nothing against that, it's very important, it provides a lot of balance—because many times I participated in many things where I was the only woman to found IDV, which is the Retail Institute. I saw so much, not because I'm Luiza Helena, but because of my role as a woman, I provided balance. So, more than ever, I fight for, I strongly believe in this union of masculine and feminine, but our struggle has been very great.
Ms. Luiza, that COP 30 is largely led by global leaders, by countries and governments. But where does civil society fit into this, and how do you believe the market can influence this energy transition, this public policy debate that we have been experiencing?
Although it's being carried out by many politicians, I'm seeing many movements present, like I saw during the Olympics, which, although not the same, as I'm seeing now, involves many movements. How many houses like these have been built by the companies themselves, and they are here fighting alongside us? It is essential that civil society and the business community join this fight. Because it affects us all. We saw that we're not used to so many accidents, especially weather-related ones, like we saw in Rio Grande do Sul, and we saw so much that we came together to rebuild the South along with the people of the South. So I think it's a responsibility, and we all have to be protagonists. Now, when we unite, like we did with the vaccine, united by the vaccine during the COVID era—civil society, public society, and all communities—we can accomplish so much more. And in terms of climate and sustainability, we have to do this because we are seeing the climate disasters that are happening all over the world.
