What's going on everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Mostly Occasionally Show. I'm your host, Brand Ward, the publisher of BroBible.com. I am so, so, so excited about today's show. I just had a wonderful conversation about two of my absolute favorite things: beer and the Grateful Dead. Today I'm joined by Sam Calagione, the founder of Dogfish Head Craft Brewing, and David Lemieux, who's the Grateful Dead's longtime archivist and historian. So this is a really, really big year in the world of the Grateful Dead. 2025 just happens to be the Grateful Dead's 60th anniversary, and to celebrate, Dogfish Head just released a beer nationwide in collaboration with the band itself. It's called The Grateful Dead Juicy Pale Ale. It's 5.2% ABV, so it's not like some crazy pale ale, very drinkable, and has a big Steal Your Face on the package and everything. I mean, this beer is going to be nationwide, and Deadheads everywhere are going to love it. In addition to the beer, Sam and David also collaborated on a series of vinyl records where both of them, along with Sam's 25-year-old son Sammy, who is a huge Deadhead himself, they all curated a set of songs. And this is all to listen to while drinking beer on the porch this summer. It's a selection of Grateful Dead cuts from the archive and from over the decades. And I was really, really excited to learn that there's some special 80s Dead there, but in full transparency, they don't actually go into detail on what it is because they're saving that for a release date down the line here that's going to come out on Record Store Day here in April. This conversation was an absolute dream. David Lemieux is a wealth of knowledge about the Grateful Dead and their 60 years of history. He's curated series like Dave's Picks and many other archival releases with the band over the years. He also hosts Today in Grateful Dead History on the SiriusXM Grateful Dead channel. So I really enjoyed picking his brain about some chapters in the band's history and how he applies his editorial lens to that overall process. And Sam, well, if you know beer, you know that Sam is a complete legend in the beer world. Dogfish Head Craft Brewing is one of those breweries that started, they were a pioneer. You kind of had Sierra Nevada in California, and then in the Mid-Atlantic on the East Coast, you had Dogfish Head, and of course you had Sam Adams and the whole nine yards. But Dogfish Head blew up in the DC, Philadelphia area. It's based in coastal Delaware, Milton, Delaware. They have a big brewery and Rehoboth Beach tap room, restaurant, live music space, the whole nine yards. Dogfish Head at this point in time is an East Coast institution in the beer world. The Boston Beer Company actually purchased Dogfish Head Brewery for $300 million in a cash and stock deal in 2019. That combined two of the biggest craft breweries in the United States. And what's super cool was talking to Sam and hearing his enthusiasm about this collab. I mean, the guy keeps it real, he keeps it 100 and true to the brand's roots, and he's just at the helm of doing really, really cool, thoughtful things like this about things he loves, like the Grateful Dead. So it completely rocked to talk to these two about both of these things and kind of how it is intersecting in this cultural moment. I really hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did. If you do, hit the Subscribe button. I'd be stoked to have you around listening to the Mostly Occasionally Show. And hey, have a great time this summer. Keep on trucking out there, and see you going down the line. Thank you so much for taking the time today, guys. I'm really, really excited to talk about this collab and what Dogfish Head is doing with the Dead, and how it dips into the Dead's incredible, incredible rich history. I mean, it's Dead 50 felt surreal, like it's Dead 60 now, and like some more history has been etched in 10 years. And that's one of those things that you just realize whenever you go start going down this path in life, as a Deadhead, as a lifelong pursuit, that history is going to happen around you in this thing, and that becomes a part of the chapters. And I think, Sam, I think your beer is part of that chapter now in an interesting way. And I cannot imagine what that's like for someone who started brewing in an NYU dorm room listening to the Dead and seeing that culture unfold and how important I imagine it's been to Dogfish Head back in the day, to now actually be doing it with them, with the stealie and all.
No, you're totally right, Brand. And Dogfish Head, one of our kind of rallying cries is the status quo sucks, and it only exists until we come together as co-workers to collaborate and change it. And certainly the Grateful Dead was a catalyst for lots of change, not just when you think about how different each of the musicians were and their complimentary superpowers to come together, from Jerry with bluegrass and country, to Pigpen with R&B, Bob with jazz, to have their own sound. Similarly, at Dogfish Head, we love coming to the idea of how we make a recipe with no expectations that it has to be militant English beer styles or German beer styles. We want to bring that creativity and unexpectedness to our recipes the same way the Grateful Dead brings creativity and unexpectedness to their sound.
Yeah, and this is your second collab right with the Dead, right? Wasn't your first one for Dead 50?
It was around then. David might remember more than I do, but we've been buddies, David and I, for almost a decade. So I think it's about almost a decade. I got to go to Phil's room, the Terrapin Station, with his sons and him for the release of that one, which was super cool.
He's like, 'Sons are drinking your beer, they love it.' I'm proud of this collab. I have a new liver, so I can't drink, but I smoked up before the show in honor of you, Sam. So that was a nice moment.
That rocks, that rocks. I mean, I remember that being just a very, it was so cool to see that the Dead actually dip into brewers' culture, because I think that brewing culture and what the Dead culturally was doing in the 80s and 90s are very linked together. And it kind of goes back to the whole idea of back in the day when the only oatmeal stout or nut brown was like a Sam Smith ale that you would only see on a Dead lot sold out of a cooler for five bucks or whatever.
No, you're right. The Dead lot was the first time that I was ever exposed, I'm talking late 80s, early 90s, first time I was ever exposed to actual beer, real like good beer. And to that point in my life, the big ones, that's all I knew. I didn't know that there were these Dogfish Heads and things. And I remember 2012 or so when we first started working with Dogfish Head, we had a lot of meetings. It's when the Dead and the licensing team and management decided to enter this space. And there were certain people, executive type people, who wanted to go with bigger names. And then the creative people on the licensing team said, 'No, no, no, no, we want to go with Dogfish Head.' And they explained why, and they explained Sam's philosophy, and going back to what kind of beer they were making. As he says, it's not just the normal stuff, it's off-centered. And when we heard more about it, we said, 'Yeah, this is definitely the right fit for the Grateful Dead.' And this is what it comes down to with the Dead: we always want to work with like-minded good people. And everybody at Dogfish Head, I remember the first time I've been to the Dogfish Head facilities a couple times now in Delaware, and it reminded me so much of Grateful Dead Productions. There's a mutual respect from Sam and Mariah all the way to everybody, the guy taking out the trash. Everybody's on equal footing, and there's a huge respect across the way. And everybody loved being there. I could just tell everybody was just loving their jobs. The organization reminded me a lot of Grateful Dead Productions. It was from the first time I went out there, been there a couple times now, definitely the right fit. And so when this bigger one came up for Dead 60, I don't think anybody even considered ever a different brewery. It was like we kind of only see it as you guys are our partners when it's time to do a beer with you.
Yeah, it's such a perfect fit for both entities. So we're going to cover a lot of ground here. I want to start, Sam, though, can you just talk me through the liquid a little bit? And that would be a great starting point here.
I'll do that like literally on the screen here, buddy. That's a beautiful Pavlovian nose. My mouth's watering. So I'm going to sip on this while I describe it to you. But for this one, we wanted it to be super approachable but still of complexity. So one of our kind of filters on the way in is it needs to appeal to Deadheads of all ages, shapes and sizes, not just hop heads. Meaning we didn't want it to be a kind of unidimensional throat punch of bitterness from hops. We wanted to have complexity, be relatively light on the palate. So the keys to the recipe: it's 5.3% ABV. We gave it the simple name of just Dogfish Head x Grateful Dead Juicy Pale Ale. There's a little bit of granola in there, as you'd find on fake Shakedown Street or pregaming in the parking lot, a little oat and honey granola in there. And there's Kernza, which is a really interesting sustainably oriented perennial grain that sequesters carbon 5x what an acre of brewer's barley would, and that gives it a nice dryness at the end. So a little bit of malt sweetness from the granola up front, dries out with the Kernza. But the real rock stars of the recipe are Azacca hops, which throws a lot of mango and citrus character, and El Dorado hops, which is more like pineapple, watermelon, tropical. So 5.3% ABV. We just launched it last week. It's going to every Whole Foods, it's going to the Sphere, it's going to every Wegmans, every Publix. So it's our best launch of a new beer at Dogfish Head since we launched 60-Minute IPA over 20 years ago.
Whoa, what a statement. That's a crazy statement coming from you, Sam. I know David and I have a lot to be proud of. He's, we've been doing this for over a decade together, and we'll talk about the music component that we're celebrating this year too. But it's been a really rewarding project. That is wonderful. That's awesome. It's so cool that it's going to be national. It's so cool that you're going to be able to enjoy it at a venue like the Sphere while enjoying the new interpretations of the Dead, their continued residency there with Dead & Company. And that's awesome. So music, I think that's such a great way to collab because that's what we do: we drink beer and listen to tunes, and we debate tunes, and we discuss eras. And I've yet to see what the actual track lists are on this comp, on this musical companion. And I was wondering, David or Sam, if you could talk me through a little bit of it. But before we do, I just need to put it out there: I'm hoping in my heart of hearts that there's at least a little bit of 80s Dead on it.
There is. There is one tune from the 80s. There is. And Brandon, there's some 90s Dead even.
60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s, we cover all the decades.
Yep. And early 70s and late 70s, so you get a taste of both versions of the 70s. It's, and for something with only six tracks, that first one is 15 minutes, and it's typical Dead. It's an eclectic batch. We did an album with Dogfish Head a few years ago that was studio recordings, and the focus was just something to sit on the porch and listen to Grateful Dead music while sipping a beer, of course. And this one, we decided to go with the live route. And Sam and his son and his son's friend had huge input on this one. We went to previously released live Grateful Dead archival releases, but all things that are sold out, that are out of print for the most part, that are not on streaming platforms. So these things on vinyl, first of all, they sound incredible. Dave Glasser, a longtime mastering engineer. It really sounds incredible. And it's got a flow. It's a classic 40 minutes, a little over 40 minutes of just great Grateful Dead music. And again, it's eclectic: '69, '73, '77, '89, '91. So we cover a little bit of everything.
That's wonderful. I mean, and it also, look, when you have a canon as big as what the Dead has, and you think about the goals of pairing it with a beer, there are certain things you're going to include, there are certain editorial decisions you're going to make. I assume you guys, how do you know when are you actually releasing the record?
On Record Store Day itself. So it's when we're talking about epic anniversaries. This year is the Grateful Dead's 60th anniversary, it's Dogfish Head's 30th anniversary, and it's also the 10th anniversary of Dogfish Head being the official brewery of Record Store Day, the partner with the indie record stores from coast to coast. So David and I are meeting in New York City at Brooklyn Bowl with Pete Shapiro in a few weeks to really launch the exclusive, show off the artwork of the poster and the album. So yeah, it couldn't be more perfect timing.
Huge anniversaries. That is super, super, super exciting. I'm just glad that it covers all the bases, all the chapters. And I'm sure it's going to be absolutely incredible. I wanted to, I guess this is a good time to talk a little bit about origin story. Sam, I'll never forget, I think it was 2009 or 2010 reading the New Yorker profile about you that really dug into a lot of your history with starting Dogfish Head. And that was what really crystallized it. I'm not gonna lie, I grew up going to Dewey Beach every summer for like two weeks, so I knew of Dogfish Head and I knew of the loose cultural connections to the Dead world and just how they're present in Sussex County, Delaware. But that article really cemented for me what some of your ties were to the Dead. How did you, I've never heard you talk about what shows were you going to? Were you a tour rat? What was your immersion looking like?
