Can I start actually by saying an enormous thank you to everyone that's come? This is slightly insane really because I think we put a post out. I say we put a post, Corey. Um I put a post out last week, didn't I? Corey's like, 'What have you done? What's going on?' And um and less than a week you've all arrived. So um give yourselves a round of applause actually. Thank you.
And I would add to that some of you actually came from CES which is kind of nuts. So raise your hand if you like got off a plane from CES. Okay. Like mad props from Vegas. Like that is a big deal. That is that is some serious commitment to your friends up here. So, thank you. And just major gratitude for you guys, not just for being here, but we have no idea what we're doing. We have no idea what we're up to and you all came out in major support and your belief in us tells us that there's a there. So, thank you. It really we we really appreciate it.
Well, look, this was meant to be a big teaser, right? But I suspect you know who the guest is and you might even know the name. So my plan was to kind of do a big reveal. But let me get on to the podcast artwork here. Yes. So a bit of background really. I launched Uncensored CMO about six years ago and it's always been my dream that Uncensored will be more than just talking about marketing because at the end of the day to be successful we have to be great leaders as well. And ever since I met Corey 18 months ago now I think in Cannes, she literally ticked every single box for me in terms of like a role model, not just a role model marketer right because functionally she is incredible and I'm such a passionate believer in challenger brands and disruption and doing things differently. But what I love even more about Corey is her leadership ability to speak the truth, you know, to lead others and to really set the kind of standard for what leadership looks like. So I'm really excited by this because if I if I could do a podcast with somebody else, it would be Corey. And so I was very pleased that when I pitched the idea, she said yes. So how do we how do we end up with Renegades? Maybe we should explain the background to why Renegades.
Well, should we start with the fact that you already went rogue and did a post without telling me? So, this relationship has kicked off with me opening LinkedIn and seeing him do a post about the one. Can we go back one? The one with the question mark and I'm like, 'Oh, so we're doing this.' So, that's a renegade spirit from the onset of not having any rules. And I have an allergy for rules and the status quo, so it's perfectly on brand. But I thought we could spend a minute chatting. I've got some some fun stats here about how that post did because it was um it was pretty fun that you went rogue and then there was some some good data behind that. So my personal favorite one because I was reading it. I'm like your audience is is very global. You live in the UK. Like you you've had how many CMOs on your podcast?
Well to 230 guests in total probably 100 CMOs. So, I'm like, I don't know. Maybe there's 1% of people who will guess that it's Corey Marchisotto. 44% of people guess that it was me. Isn't that bananas? I think that's super bonkers. And, you know, some of what came up from a sentiment perspective was overwhelmingly positive. We're like, that's a good signal. We like signals. Uh, high trust and anticipation. People love the idea that we were going to do a shorter length so that they could listen to it on their commute. I'm getting head nods. So, people are super appreciating that we say 20 minutesish.
You'll see why when it launches. They're never 20. It's like we got from 27 to 26 to 25. I get excited at 25. I'm like, close enough. People also love a female voice of authority. Can we give it up for that? Not enough women out there in this space. So, that's really good. And the other thing that came back in the data poll was the leather jackets.
There was a lot of commentary about the leather jacket.
Let's put the leather jacket back on. There we go.
And then you had some other really good stats about who was engaging with the posts that I thought were.
Yeah, this was really fascinating because obviously in LinkedIn you get to see who's uh you know, who's responded to the post. Uh number one were founders, number two co-founders.
So there's something about running a business and you know owning a business and and the challenges that faces that this really taps into. I mean and every good marketer as well should think like a business owner as well.
Well, I think the other thing is Uncensored, challenger brand, renegade. It's all thematically tied to entrepreneurship which is where you're going to get a lot of founders. I mean, most of the entrepreneurial energy and the challenger comes from that scrappy startup, you know, basically make it or die kind of mentality, which is what allows challenger brands to stay challenger brands. So, I thought that was was pretty cool. And it was the number four engaged post in the last 30 days. And I'm like, we got to get this into the top three at least, right?
100%. James the audio is quite bad apparently. The audio it's a bit fishbowl.
Or we everyone could huddle in a bit. We could you come to us.
Everyone heard that. Get closer.
Or we scratch the recording and just do the other idea is it's not going to be a podcast and we just make it about the audience.
Oh, just do it as an iPhone. I'm I'm happy with that.
Everyone seems to enjoy me. This is amazing.
This is pretty cool, right? I love it. Uhoh. This is so good. Yeah, we have a photographer somewhere, don't we?
Yeah. All right, let's talk about topics and what we're going to talk about. You said something to me uh when we first started this which really hit a nerve, which is why don't we talk about the things that people are too afraid to talk about.
It's got to be relatable, real talk, real people. So, what I loved about John's podcast is you feel like it's a real conversation that adds real value to your everyday life. So, when you listen to the podcast, you're like, I just got a little bit smarter and I'm going to put that new intelligence into my work today and you can actually see it and feel it in action. So, we wanted it to be snackable, relatable, repeatable, and valuable to the listener. And one of the things that both of us hear all the time and I'm sure anyone who's a CMO in the room or or out there in the audience is marketers sound like corporate talking heads. And feedback that I get very often is that I actually speak like a human. And I find that to be really interesting. I'm like, when did humans stop sounding like humans? So, we want to make sure that we always keep this rooted in humanity. We're here to serve the audience and we're here to tell folks about the stuff we wish people told us along our journey that would have helped us get further faster.
Totally. I mean, we we've already recorded 14 episodes, haven't we? Which is great.
Which is a bit insane. And and and the brief was quite fun actually because when I was trying to convince Corey to do this, it's like one one thing I insisted on, it must be live because the energy is so much greater and it must go out weekly because having done a podcast for six years, people get into this routine and if it's not weekly, you just get you just go up and down, you never kind of grow sort of thing. Now, Corey's a fairly busy person, let's just say, you know, she has a fairly big job and she has to be in lots of places. So we basically worked out how many hours are we going to be in the same place at the same time in the course of a year. Divide that by 52 and you get to 15 minutes. So we decided well we ended up going 20 didn't we in the end sort of thing but that that was the idea. So what what we would love to happen and this is where I think when we when we kind of finish this chat I'd love to throw it out to you is we'd love this to be a community thing where everyone says this is the question I'm too afraid to ask. I need help with this. So, we were talking about, for example, what do I do when I've got a shitty boss? Or how do I respond when I get fired? You know, what happens when I fail and fail big? You know, these are the kind of things I'd love us to have a conversation about.
Or what happens when somebody in a meeting blows smoke in your face? We're going to make a whole episode out of that. That actually happened to me. I'm just going to put that out there. So, you know, and your fight or flight sets in and you don't know how to respond in the moment. So this is really valuable information for our audience, but one of the things maybe would be great is to take them on the journey of how did we get here.
Because it started with you.
It did. Yeah. Well, it's funny when when I'm looking for guests on the show. And by the way, there are a few guests here actually. So in this corner over here, we got some we got some former guests that do go there afterwards. But I have a very simple brief for Carrie who does all the uh planning, guest planning for me, which is find me the most interesting person you can because when you're creating a podcast, you want to you want to have engaging stories, you want to have real life experience. So it's not just about learning how to do it, but it's more about how you communicate that uh to the audience. And so I said I said to Carrie, right, get me the most kick-ass CMOs in in America because obviously, you know, this is where the you know, the action happens. And so basically, you know, I've been sort of trying to get Corey on the show for some time and Cannes was the moment when it happened, right? Because you were over you were presenting with you were doing something with Mike Cesario, weren't you?
We had just dropped our collab and he was.
That's right. Then we had the conversation on on the podcast and it was just that chemistry thing where I thought Corey exemplifies everything that I would want to be as a CMO. As I say, I always joke because I got fired twice in the same year about seven years ago. The reason I do this is because uh I couldn't I couldn't become a a Well, actually, one of one of the topics we cover is what to do when you get fired, which is basically 18 minutes of me talking, right? There are other episodes, by the way, that you know, mostly Corey, but anyway, that that's fun.
Well, I love that you're open about it. Like, how many people in this room have been fired, right? Like, it's not something that people feel comfortable talking about. It's part of the journey, and we want to be able to lift people up, be like, 'All right, you got fired. Here's five people who got fired. Go talk to them versus go hiding in a corner and thinking that you have to put your head down in shame.' And this is where the the the humanity part comes in. But Carrie stalked me.
Like like a psycho stalker to try to get me on the show. And eventually I listened to some episodes. I chatted with some folks that you had had on and they were like, 'Oh my god, absolutely. Get on there. Go do it.' So, I did the episode and I believe it was your second highest rated episode after Scott Galloway.
So, as you'll hear us talk about often, we're following the signals, right? This was data and insights that led us here, which is a lot of what we talk about on the podcast is the formula for success, which starts with listening. And that's where that came from. So then John propositioned me for building this out. And of course my number one thing was time. How are we going to get this done? And when you have yes energy and you believe in the thing, you figure it out. And I think that's kind of where we are right now is we're figuring it out.
Well, we've already done, let me just add this up. We've done Cannes, Paris, London, New York. We're doing pretty well actually on the kind of world tour, aren't we?
So, why Renegades? Let's talk about the name because that's been a journey.
That has been a journey and there's quite a few people in in this room right now who've been part of this journey, inputting, commenting, contributing both to the artwork as well as as to the names.
It's always the name, isn't it? Like whenever you're launching new product, the name takes forever. We've been through a few names.
We've been through a few names. Um, but but you came up with Renegades, didn't you? And this this is quite recently actually. So, what what was it about Renegades that caught your imagination?
I love your focus with Uncensored on challenger brands and the lessons that can be learned from challenger brands. And challenger brands are most often successful because they're run by renegades. And one of the things that I think about on what needs to be true for somebody to be in a state of peak performance, you have to be totally aligned with the frequency of the thing that you're into. And when I think about ELF and why this perfectly aligned with who I am is because it is a company built on a renegade spirit from our initial founders 21 years ago to our current CEO who was who is really more a founder uh you know leans more toward founder which is which is why we have such a founder entrepreneurial energy and spirit. And if you're going to try to help people along the journey of being okay to break with the status quo, that name is the transformative name. Like you're going to listen to this podcast if you want to do things differently. If you're willing to take the path of most resistance and I think the name perfectly exemplifies what you're about, what I'm about, and what we have legitimacy and and credibility to stand behind.
Totally. And by the way, 16 other names were already taken.
Not that I don't love this one. I actually do. And it it you know, there's a lot of difficulties that you have. And this is true for trademarking products. All of us who work in marketing know that the legal side of trying to get something is is super complicated.
Now, we should probably get to know each other a little bit, shouldn't we? Because I know um something you do with your team is you've got some very interesting ways of kind of getting under the skin of the people in your team.
So, one of the things that I learned along the interview process, it it started there and then it it translates further, is people have a really hard time talking about themselves. And if you can somehow give them a way to talk about themselves without talking about themselves, you can get to know them further, deeper, and faster than ever before. So I started on my interview journey by asking people to describe themselves as a drink. Now people will automatically go to when I go to a bar, I order a spicy margarita and that's not the idea. It's not a drink that you like or a drink that you you have daily. It's what does it have to say about who you are? I have interviews where people are talking to me about their mother and their journey and their pathway and dark secrets. I'm like, whoa. Okay, as soon as you give somebody a way of of describing themselves through another vehicle, it changes the conversation. But then people got on to me. So now everybody knows to anticipate she's going to ask you what drink you are. So I have a new one that I'm going to ask you, which is to describe yourself as a spice. So, you're in this spice cabinet and you've got to pick up the spice that describes John Evans and tell us what that spice has to say about you.
Now, randomly because you warned me you're going to ask me about a spice, right? And and I I I did something. I went on uh ChatGPT. Actually, I came up with first of all, I came up with the answer I thought. This is no word. I went on ChatGPT and I said, 'Which spice would I be?' and it came up with an exact match for the spice I came up with which which was paprika. I don't know why but there's something about there's something about the color of it and the intensity of flavor and the versatility of it which I absolutely love that makes any any dish just taste better and and and vibrant and just turn something that can be you you could put it on chips for example right it could it could turn something quite boring into something quite sensational. Um now the rationale in ChatGPT was a little bit boring actually I have to be honest it said that John likes to mix real world experience with theory and I was like what's that got to do with paprika I don't know how do you get from that to paprika but anyway but I I love the fact that you got the spice right. I thought that was really good what about you though?
So I'm an overachiever I asked three different AIs what they would use to describe me only one of them landed on the one that I chose for myself if I had to pick. So, Perplexity, which is actually my AI of choice of of the moment, chose saffron. Yeah. Right. And I hope you're all thinking about what spice you are. And it said that saffron is rare, luminous, and instantly recognizable. And what it says about Corey is she doesn't whisper, she colors everything she touches. I was like, that's that's good. Deep, right? That's good. Perplexity knows me, so it's a little poetic. And it says that it um saffron infuses whatever it enters with vibrancy and a renegade spirit that has the ability to shift and in a business sense turn a company into a culture. Then I asked ChatGPT. ChatGPT said turmeric, which by the way, I didn't know how to spell until after we made a mistake on a Keys Soulcare Golden Cleanser that has turmeric in it. And we put a lot of bottles to market without the first R. We won't ever make that mistake again. So, yes, turmeric with two Rs. And this one says turmeric because purposeful power. Um, Corey is bold without being loud, transformative at her core, warmth with an edge, recognized for benefits, not just taste, and always leaves a mark. And the last one was Gemini, and Gemini chose crushed red pepper. So, I think we see a common a common thread here. I'm obviously a little spicy. And this one because I bring a renegade heat. I didn't say the word renegade. Interesting that Gemini chose that. A lightning bolt impact, a kind heart with a kick, and a purpose-driven depth. So, I thought actually AI did a pretty good job. So, it's a great interview question and it really helps people understand how to get behind uh get behind the wall of the facade that we want to put out. Plus, everybody's overprepared, so you have to be ready to throw a question out that's going to help you get past the small talk. All right, I'm going to ask you another question. What makes you mental?
You know, when you asked me this earlier, I literally was went mental, didn't I? Like, and I don't know what this This is going to be like totally first world problems. I'm going to sound probably like a right old ass now when I say this, but um I planned my trip over here. So, I've got um I I I fly between BA or Virgin. I've got the loyalty card in both and uh I managed to get to gold status on Virgin, which gets you into the By the way, anyone who flies through Terminal 3, the lounge, Virgin Lounge there is like nothing else. It's amazing. So, I planned my trip here based on the fact that I've got a gold card. I can get into the lounge. It's all going to be lovely. That sort of thing. Anyway, I didn't even think about checking and I got there, got through and looked at my app and it's like, 'Oh, I've been downgraded silver. Damn.' And then I realized that it hadn't updated for like my past eight flights. It was missing like half my travel from the year and that's why I've been downgraded. But I was just like, I mean, producer James will back me up on this. I was because uh he was flying BA and we were messaging each other. But it just like really irritated me. Now, and this is going to sound like very gibberish, I'm sure, but um but that's just symbolic for me. Bad customer experience or bad customer service that doesn't live up to the reason you love the brand is just earthshattering. It just, you know, I I got really I'm never going to fly Virgin again. I can't believe, you know, that's by the time I got on the plane, it was all fine and I was having a great trip. But I think the thing that makes me mad is any bad customer service where the promise, the brand, and the and the service don't match up. And it's also the marketer in me because I then want to solve it. So I then get involved with the staff going, you know, what you should be doing right now is, you know, giving me this and that, you know, and they must think, who's this dude? You know,
It makes me mental that the airlines can't figure out among the alliances, how to make this a smooth, frictionless way of connecting the dots between if I fly Delta or I fly somebody in the alliance, why can't I more easily connect these? So, I actually think it's a pretty bad experience across all of the businesses, but I totally agree. That was actually my fourth on the list was my my list of things that make me mental is bad customer service. The first one for me as a New Yorker living in San Francisco is San Franciscans crossing the street. This makes me insane. And I have tried to do it their way and I just can't no matter how hard I try. So for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, they follow the rules even if there are no cars. So they are standing on the street corner. The light is not in your favor. Okay, I get it. But there's no cars. What are you waiting for? So, I like rev up the engine and I'm like, 'All right, we're going to cross, right? We're going to cross, right?' And they don't. They wait until the hand says it's okay to cross. I'm like, I I can't live like this. It makes me insane.
Can I put Can I put a case for the San Franciscans oversee, right? Because you should try being an Englishman in New York. I got almost got killed yesterday. I don't know. The cars are allowed to go over when it's your turn as a pedestrian. What's that about? This woman was like this far from me. Like literally just steered all the way around me as I walked across. It scares the living daylights out of you because we expect to be in San Francisco, right? Not when he comes to New York. It's completely different.
