Okay. DC Spingarn has been sitting empty for two decades. Spingarn High School, right off Benning Road, right where DC poured all of these hundreds of millions into a streetcar system that they're going to shutter, right? Took part of Spingarn's land to house these trolleys. And why can't you turn Spingarn into like a creative center where you tell all of your TikTokers, your YouTubers, come to this facility. We will have state-of-the-art. You go into these rooms and you do your thing. You make your magic. That's already, you know, getting me a foot into the industry.
Yeah. Step in the right direction.
Yeah. Why can't you do that?
Hello. Welcome to the opening scene. Why do some cities become film hubs while others with just as much talent struggle to attract productions? What actually keeps film and television productions in the US and what's quietly pushing them elsewhere? It's not just about creativity. It's about policy, infrastructure, and how seriously a city invests in its creative economy. Today's guest is John Gibson, a senior executive at the Motion Picture Association, where he works at the intersection of film, television, streaming, and public policy. John helps advocate for the industry at the local, state, federal, and global level, and he has a unique perspective on what regions like the DMV need to grow. In this conversation, we unpack the realities behind tax incentives, workforce development, representation, and why storytelling matters far beyond entertainment. This is the opening scene with John Gibson. Let's get into it.
John, I'm super happy that you're here.
Thank you, bro. Thank you for having me.
Absolutely. I feel you're about to have a wealth of knowledge for us to really understand so much about the hidden side of what the Motion Picture Association does, but also just like how important you all are to the entire ecosystem.
I mean, listen, the MPA has been around for over 100 years and so we are an important part as you say, of the ecosystem. I just want to kind of tell folks what the MPA does. Yeah, if you don't mind, because I mean I'm still learning and I don't know if everyone else is way ahead of me but I would love for the new person and also the person who's been doing this for 20 plus years to really understand what does MPA do nowadays for sure. Okay. So, MPA, Motion Picture Association. So, I think the public will most identify with us. If you're sitting in a theater, theaters are important. And before the feature film, you get these trailers and it's like this trailer has been presented to you by, you'll see our logo with the reels in it, the globe and the reels. That's the MPA. We are the trade association. We are the advocacy arm of the global film, TV, and streaming industry. We represent what I call the big seven. You have, let me do it in order. I'm make sure I mess up. Amazon Prime MGM Studios, you have Disney, you have Netflix, you have Sony, you have Universal, you have Warner Brothers Discovery, and you have Paramount. So, you have the seven, right? Yeah. So, you have the seven and but you know, those are our members, but we represent again the entire global film, TV, streaming industry because these are the seven biggest media companies in the world.
Help me understand a little bit about what your role is. Yeah.
In the midst of this organization. So beyond just the ratings, we advocate on behalf of the industry at the state and local level. Internationally at the federal level. So you know we have lobbyists at all those levels that work feverishly every day to make sure that the industry is represented getting new opportunities whether that's you know production tax credits throughout the US, internationally. My role is I oversee global industry relations and advocacy that grew out of our diversity, equity, inclusion. It actually, you know, it evolved from DEI because it's making sure that this incredible industry looks like the global audience that supports it. That's first and foremost. Here in the US, we know every major study that looks at this industry talks about that communities of color overindex in going to the theater to support the industry, watching television, that's with those important advertising dollars, subscription to streaming platforms. So, we have an obligation. It's just a business imperative that folks who support the industry should have an opportunity to work in the industry. And that's what I do. From you know out of DUST back in January 2012, created, launched this program under the leadership of the MPA and now 70 partners and we started with the American Black Film Festival. Shout out to Jeff Friday. ABFF turns 30 next year. They were our first partner and they gave us you know validity in this space because MPA had been around I guess 90 years then but we just never just jumped in this space. And again now you know our newest partners are like four in the UK that I brought on board back in June.
Absolutely. A decade plus of this hard earned work here.
Hey the work is necessary. It's important and you know it's personal to me. So.
Why is that? What made you jump into this side? What's the intersection of storytelling and like DEI for you that said like this is the perfect spot to show up?
Well I mean I'm a native Washingtonian. Proud to be from this great city, Washington DC. But I grew up at a time where DC was 85% black. So think of the most powerful city in the world, 85% black. That's why it was called Chocolate City. I remember years ago a comedian joked that's like DC is nothing but a million black people on eight blocks. I mean, because geographically it's not that big, but we're here. And but when I saw TV shows and movies about my city, I didn't see us. I mean, we should have been everywhere. We were everywhere. And so when you don't see yourself, you wonder then do you belong? And I overindexed in watching TV because you know when times weren't always great and so it was for escapism, to be inspirational, aspirational, going to the movies and again so it's you know movies have always played an important part in my development and you know in DC you do the political thing I did politics and all those good things and private equity and all those things and you know when I had the opportunity to come to the MPA and the executive leadership supported my efforts that we wanted to weigh in on a very public facing issue that our industry was grappling with like how could the trade association assist our member studios because there was this perception that our studios didn't care about diversity and that was not true because what I found there were a lot of executives that looked like you and I working feverishly I mean but our agencies if you know anything about the federal government which is massive are some of our studios are as big as these agencies and it takes time to make change and so you know the MPA we kind of I think moved in the shadows, if you will, where our studios couldn't be there, we were there. Where bringing people to the table, bringing organizations to the table, bringing organizations to these festivals like ABFF, the first year I went that 2012 when I launched the program. I didn't see any of our studios. I happened to walk into NBC, that was the year NBC had a lot of black programming coming out that fall. Like Meagan Good and Laz Alonso had a show. I think they were either cops or the detectives. It didn't make it past the season, but they were promoting all this stuff and I happened upon the NBC Universal their suite. And I met one of my dearest friends in the world now. She's CEO of Color Creative which is the talent management company with Tita Watkins. Shout out to Tita. At the time, she was the vice president of multicultural marketing for Universal Pictures. And she heard me talking to her cousin. I said DC and Tita grew up in the area and she's like what are you doing here? What does your boss know you were down here flexing showing these tattoos and we joked. But I was like well where are the studios and she's like they come sporadically and I said yeah I'mma change that and she was like yeah you boy you just got in the industry you don't know how Hollywood works and that next year I had at the time we had six members I had all six there we created an event called Trailfest and every all six of the major studios for a two-hour block worked collectively together under the MPA banner and all of them gave because I thought, you know, black people like trailers, too. You know, you would have like ComicCon and CinemaCon and all these things where the studios would show advanced, you know, give a teaser what was coming up and I was like, we like that too. So, we had two hours each studio had 20 minutes. Tita brought Malcolm D. Lee and Morris Chestnut. And they surprised the audience with I think with Best Man Holiday. And Fox Searchlight brought an unfinished 12 Years a Slave.
What about your approach you feel like worked to get all six there? You said they weren't there previously, but then all of a sudden you step in and.
Because I one I recognized, okay, here's an issue here. This is the preeminent film festival for black Americans. Our studio should be here. So, you know, part of our classification ratings administration separate from that is the advertising administration. So that's those are my colleagues that approve every bit of advertising that affects any type of film. If it's radio, TV, now social media, anything, they approve it. The most amazing led by the most amazing women, Marilyn and Julia, and they work with all the marketing execs at the studio. So I went to them. I was like, you know, I've launched this program, ABFF, as our new partner. Can you help me get these studios there or at least make the introduction? Yeah. And they were like for you anything. So I called them like my there were like quite a few I call godmothers of my program and they were absolutely godmothers and they put me on an email and I remember Tita was like I don't know what you're doing but I'm getting access to stuff that never happened before. And again so we did that for a number of years but it's always a no till you ask. So you have nothing to lose by asking. That's just a personal process.
But we made it happen. And again that program that we built with them again it was unique. Sundance didn't do it. Berlin, Toronto, International, all six of our studios worked together and they were seeing what each other had coming up like Paramount brought the first 15 minutes of World War Z because it was tracking not to do so well. They did a lot of edits but the audience loved it. The Conjuring they brought that for the first time you know. So that shows you one how long that series has been in play. But it was an incredible event. And then next year ABFF went to New York. Tita brought this guy. You may have heard of Chadwick Boseman sometimes. Yeah. You know, so I mean so it was just a great event. But I was just like I wasn't jaded by the industry. So I was just like okay I want to see just that my community all communities reflected. So let's start here.
Yeah. Well, how did you even grab these connections though to even show up in these rooms in the first place? You say you have these godmothers. I assume like anything for you means like.
Well, you I mean I think if you show yourself to be a decent person. This industry has a lot of interesting personalities. I just was the person that my parents raised me to be, you know. Pride come up before a fall. So I you know I come with humility. One, I always I still to this day suffer with imposter syndrome. Sometimes I'm being honored in rooms and I come in, I'm like, 'Yeah, they gonna figure me out.' Or I have to engage and speak a lot in front of large audiences, but I am a natural introvert and most people don't believe it. Now, if I walk in a space and I don't know anybody, I will typically, if there's like a bar, I'll get a drink and I'll kind of retreat until I see somebody I know. Yeah. I don't walk up to people, but if you like, 'Hey, John, I want you to meet somebody.' Oh, I'm going to engage all day long. But I just don't.
You're not the initiator regardless.
Yeah. Because I'm still like questioning, why am I in these rooms?
That work has to be important for what you've been doing. Then it has to be important because you initiated then at that point. It wasn't just waiting for someone to come to you. As you said, you had to ask. Yeah. So, you have to get out of your comfort zone. So, that's why folks are like, 'You're an introvert.' I'm like, 'I'm an extroverted introvert.' You just have to push past your insecurities and get the work done.
I want to kind of dive into the advocacy program just a little bit more like what are the actual tangible things you are doing? And I asked this question too when I think about workforce development. We talk about the on-screen representation but we're also talking about behind the scenes when you mention those executives and we're in a spot nowadays in the industry where there's constriction like there's studios merging possibly there's conversations around removal of DEI standards so forth and so on. We won't go into the political side of it, but how are you and your program still working to make sure that on screen and offscreen there's a diversification not just we won't talk about just here but just crossing globally.
So just a few weeks back we do an annual event in New York with the Empire State Development which is the economic arm of New York State. Okay. Working directly under the governor and we've been doing this was the eighth program the only the ninth year but the eighth program the only one year we didn't do it since we launched it was because of the strikes the dual strikes in 2023. It's called the New York State Creativity Summit and what we do it provides a roadmap for diverse New Yorkers to figure out the industry. We have panels on how to navigate the industry, how to navigate film festivals, production finance, how to finance your vision. We have a legal filmmaker. So we have a professor the head of the Cardozo School of Law at Columbia, Michelle Greenberg who does amazing. She comes and gives you know a 40-minute session on hey you may be creative but you have to understand the legal side of it you know to protect yourself to protect your work. We do that. So it's like a six-hour we throw everything at you where you're going to come out and you're going to be like wow I feel better prepared to navigate this industry. Yeah. For a number of years, we've always partnered with one of our New York-based multicultural orgs. We started with Urban World the first year. Then we went to the New York Latino Film Festival. Shout out to NALIP I'm on their board. Then we had the Ghetto Film School. Last year we had Learn Film Network. So last year this organization was like, hey, how can we be a part of this? You may have heard of it. Tribeca, you know, like over one of the largest actually industry orgs in the world. Absolutely. They came to us and you know they have an arm of Tribeca that is focused on underrepresented talent and they were like hey you know we fit in this mode but you know we love what you all are doing and I'm like it's Tribeca and what it did this year bringing them on board we still stay true to who our core audience is but there were smaller festivals in the audience that we can now introduce them to Tribeca. Maybe before they wouldn't have this opportunity. Yeah, but now you have like the Imagine This Women's International Film Festival, the Interfaith Film Festival, Collective Moxy, all of these organizations that are focused on multicultural communities and making sure again the industry is diverse, but now they're engaging with the Tribeca where that opportunity may not have existed before and we facilitated that.
In your opinion, especially because you've had a massive hand in these different partnerships and these steps forward, what is working and what in your mind still needs to change?
Well, there's a great organization called Reel Works, and what they're doing, they're preparing students. I think it was 18 to 25. Forgive me if the age is above 25. But when these students hit these sets, they've been trained by union staffers, union members. They hit the ground running and they know this. Excuse my language. They are so impressive. The fact that it started in New York, California has brought them out there. I took them to Georgia because we also doing a partner for a summit in Georgia the Georgia State of the Industry Summit at Trilith which is the largest studio complex in North America in Fayetteville Georgia where all of Marvel for almost a decade all their films we did that in October and we brought Reel Works down. Now there's also some great organizations called the Georgia Film Academy and Institute. So it's not like oh we're trying to show that we can do what you do. Like how can we all support each other because the industry is big enough. It's going to take a lot of tentacles and a lot of people working together to fully make sure it's realized to be this place that's welcoming to everybody.
You mentioned those industry partners again where there aren't necessarily the big studios but it's those indie productions and you know those do you all work with them directly or because of your position with MPA you have to kind of meter out towards just like the big studios and then if they're connected like HBO's connected to ABFF you're able to talk with them and get.
Yeah. Listen, ABFF was I mean HBO was one of the founding sponsors of ABFF. So they're constantly working together. A lot of the like New York Latino Film Festival again HBO HBO shout out to HBO under the Warner Brothers Discovery. They were just funding a lot of these festivals. Yeah. And doing it in such a way that was authentic you know where other funding wasn't there. HBO just kind of just you know Dennis Williams shout out to him because he oversees all of this but you know yeah it's important or sometimes I will work with organizations and connect them with other organizations be like I can see from like 10,000 feet in the air like oh my god if that group and that group were to collaborate they make some magic happen and they're both doing the work but they may have never been able to engage. Yeah. And we make that happen. And then down the road, I'm looking at, wow, an announcement in the Hollywood trades like this group and this group or they're working together and I'm like, we kind of facilitated that introduction. Can't take full credit for everything you're doing, but they didn't know that they even there would be synergy. Yeah. Because sometimes, you know, folks feel like, oh, I don't want to work with that group because they might see what I'm doing and try to take what I'm doing. But no, no, no. There's just enough. There's enough to go around.
To that point, I think about the one thing that when I ask you about the workforce development piece of it, you talked about education. Yeah. And like that age group between the 18 and 25. I remember meeting you or briefly supposed to meet you at the PG film festival. And you were talking to a young group of creators, innovators who are starting to try to get their foot in the ground.
That Yeah, that was so I'm on the board of the Entertainment Industry College Outreach Program. Yeah. One of its marquee programs is HBCU in LA that started eight years ago. And what HBCU in LA does it they work with a number of our major studios, but also the talent agencies, PR firms, graphic designers, you know, the industry has so many different professions. It's just not acting, directing, cinematography. And so, you know, when students are selected, it's a very competitive process to be selected. I think the portal is open from the mid-September to I think like right now I think it should probably just wrapped up but when students are selected they spend eight weeks they get to LA the Tuesday after Memorial Day they're in LA 8 to 10 weeks travel and lodging is paid for LA's a bit expensive so you got that taken care of and they get really healthy stipends but they're learning the industry and every Thursday there's like a they're all brought in together there's fireside chat. I mean, they have some heavy hitters, like some folks that I can't even get on the phone. They come and they pour into these kids. And that was so successful. Then we moved on to HBCUs in New York City where they, you know, they're at like 30 Rock and again they're working because now a lot of the parent companies are studios are headquartered in New York. New York's also entertainment capital in addition to Hollywood. Then well, you have Atlanta, you have Georgia. Yeah. So last year, HBCU in ATL started and so I think one the next is Nashville and I think that's going to be with the recording industry.
I thought you were going to say DC. Are you having me a little excited? Are you working your way back up? You're on the east coast.
I mean you have Howard here and Howard has more industry attention than probably all the other HBCUs thrown together. This is true. So I and I love my Howard folks. Shout out to Professor Johnny Ramaran and the kids because she'll have me come up and speak to them. They do amazing. But you know, the reason why we did Bowie, Bowie has an animation department. Amazing. And so Stacy Milner, who's the founder and CEO of EICOP, which is the acronym, she's done a lot of stuff for Bowie. So it was our pleasure to go back to Bowie. Every time I go to Bowie, I'm always with Stacy. And so, you know, and I've been working with Coppin State. Shout out to Joshua Humber who's their head of institutional advancement. He's now on the board of EICOP because I was like, you know what? And Coppin is forward thinking. Their CEO, Dr. Anthony Jenkins is the president, is from DC, DC native. And I was like, you know what? We don't have an HBCU administrator on the board. And Josh is so forward thinking. You need someone to make sure that our schools are constantly we're not lagging behind. Sometimes our schools operate like the black church, which is sometimes can be a little stuck in its ways. Sometimes there are some churches that are incredibly innovative and there are some that are still, you know, stuck in their ways a little bit, but they're doing good work and so that's necessary. So, yeah.
Question I was about to ask. You talk about workforce development programs for those coming out of college. I think we're in an industry now where so many people are pivoting later in their career. They're trying to figure it out later on. And like are there programs that you're aware of, workforce programs?
Why we do those summits and you know one of the discussion points I had was yes I'm all about pipeline opportunities for emerging folks that want to for graduates but what about people who have been working the industry is kind of like stalled a bit right now and they're not working how do they pivot because you know 2.5 million people every day in this country get up to work in this industry again the industry has so many jobs. Beyond, you know, whether it be in communications, healthcare, obviously, business, finance, engineering, you know, I mean, there's so many different things. So, if you were maybe like a union employee, a union member, and you're not working on the set right now, can you pivot to do something else, but you love this industry? And yes, those are those opportunities. So it again it's bringing experts in where they can just provide a road map to like how do you pivot and you know reassessing where you want to be. Yeah. And you know it's like I mean we're in an age now where you know your phone is there's nothing stopping you and there's all these tools. So it's really almost like what is stopping you is your own limitations of that you like I can't do this. Why can't you? That's another a big philosophy. Why can't you? Why not now? Do it. How many people in our industry got their careers jumping later in life? A lot of people. And they bring those lived experience of what they were doing previously into the creative space and they absolutely flourish.
What takes a workforce development program to be successful?
Collaboration. Okay. I think being in the right rooms, understanding what your audience is, and staying true to what your goals and objectives are because sometimes we can throw a lot of things at the wall and it might just be two things that you might want to focus on. I think sometimes folks are I don't want to say overly ambitious because that's you want to fine-tune what you you know, who's your audience? What do you want them to get out of your programming? And on the other side of it, once they are, you know, they graduate your program, are they being able to be hired? Do you have I mean, this is a relationship heavy industry. You have to be in rooms. I can always say to people, I can get you in rooms, but I can't keep you there. Yeah. So, I'll bring you in. It is on you to work the rooms. I there was a young lady an actress here I think Mature and she had done some local projects and they were impressive but she was like I'm trying to do more. I just but you know DC the DMV right now I was like come up to the summit it's for New Yorkers but come up I'm going to put you in there but you got to go. She was working everything. We had a reception afterwards. You know, the cousins are always going to find a spot for sure. And I'm like, it's like 40 of y'all. Like, and they're like, come on. Come on. Come over. Let's talk to us. But she was right in the thick of things. And she got on social media after was like, oh my god, this was life-changing. I just provided the space for you to be in it. But you had to take it from there. And she made a lot of good connections because there are a lot of independent streaming platforms now. I used to think, you know, if somebody won at a multicultural film festival, best picture, what did that really mean? Because for our community, we don't have institutional wealth. So, you know, how do you fund your project, your savings? You may more get a second mortgage. Crowdfunding, you know, again, family. Yeah. But if you win best picture, okay, yeah, you got a plaque, but you're not able to monetize it. Now, with all these streaming platforms led by a lot of brothers in this space, you can monetize your project. So, we invited some of them there. So, again, I'm like, you need to go up to these folks and pitch yourself.
What are some of those platforms?
In The Black TV network that was founded by James Dubois, who created Fox Soul, him and his partner, Omar Sagato, my bros. Bolt Access, created by Kenneth Giffords, who created the Newark International Film Festival, and Kenny was also the Newark Film Commissioner. So, he knows the industry on multiple sides. He and Loren Tate, his brothers, they collaborated together. Man Robinson, who somebody said affectionately, they were like, 'Man is like the ghetto Tyler Perry,' but man is just brilliant. He's from Detroit, moved to Atlanta a number of years ago, and man puts out more content than anybody I know. Man Robinson Studios is so impressive, but he launched his network this
Year, TV1, but it's like TV and the second I is actual one. But again, there's so many. And then you have Afroand TV. That's a streaming platform partly owned by Comcast. You have the Africa channel. They have Demand Africa. You have America New Dame Dash founded that one. You have...
You're speaking to that diversity too.
Yeah. Michael Mapanga who created, co-founder of Afroine TV, created Mapanga Studios, moved it to Toronto. Why did he move it to Toronto? Well, back in April I took him and two of the other streamers to Toronto. I'm on the board of the Black Screen Office. So, you know, our Canadian brothers and sisters and cousins in the history of Canadian television, there have only been four shows focused on black Canadians. So, many of them in understanding their identity and who they are looked at black American content.
So, we sometimes we don't understand our full reach and how we inspire. So, we did a panel, they do this huge thing called the BSO. They do a huge symposium every year. I took them up there. He was so inspired by the conversation, he moved from Dallas to Toronto.
And he was like, I wouldn't have done this if you hadn't brought me up here. So, I know he's going to do his thing big. So, I'm just going to look back and be like, but look what happened. You a part of that conversation. You part of that conversation. So I'm like, so they're all part of we have this alliance called the streaming innovation alliance because streaming has really taken, I mean it's certainly transformed the industry and all of our members except for Sony have streaming platforms because Sony was like well we're not going to do our own we'll just create content to sell to you all platforms wisely.
But we were very insistent that oftentimes our communities, the Latin community, the indigenous, the Asian community, all communities, multicultural communities when these announcements are made by the majors. They're like, 'Well, why aren't we part of that?' We were very insistent when we launched this, when we made this launch three years ago that streaming platforms representing multicultural communities would also be a part of it and they will have the same vote. So, Afroand TV has the same vote as a Netflix. Demand Africa has the same vote as a Disney Plus. And so you know what's been happening? There's legislation happening all around the country at the state level because again tradition, a lot of taxes on traditional broadcasting funded public radio, I mean public television.
Yeah.
Well that's all kind of changing. So you know have legislators looking at well let's tax the streamers. But if the majors are going to be affected, you know the little guys are. But the little guys they don't have lobbyists looking at what's happening. Right. So now that they're in this alliance, they know that what could happen in Massachusetts or Vermont, a legislature in Tennessee or Louisiana or Alabama. Well, like with that passed there, let's do it. And we don't want these streamers being put out of business. Absolutely. So they're now part of this alliance. And now they're understanding that, yeah, to be in business in this industry, I need to know what's happening at the policy level, whether it be state, local, federal, because it can affect my business. So now these business leaders are a part of these conversations and they're killing it.
Streaming alliances and like there, you know, it's a broader impact, but like when you're trying to just even foster a creative economy here and I think we've heard Mayor Bowser, she wants to bring and make this a capital creative economy. I think I even recently read about West Morris saying we have to diversify our economy at this point in time and we think about the renaissance that like even Baltimore is having with their creative economy too. As much as we would love the majors and they bring in a massive economic value. Yeah. How do we kind of even build out this creative economy for just people who are here aren't the majors but still bringing in business?
I mean you can, you know, you can be a center for micro films.
