"If you don't do it for purpose, do it for profit": Luiza Trajano's lessons on Brazil

So, I don't think there is anything I remember that I use to take action. I am very grateful for the kind of upbringing I had. I was raised by strong women who believed in the strength of women when it was still very difficult. So I think believing that everything has a solution, except illness, and that you have to seek a solution for everything. When I came home from school telling some problem at school, with friends, with my mother, or with the teacher, my mother would say: 'What did you do to solve it?' Not 'poor dear, I'll call the school.' So I was raised with little self-pity but with the belief that I was capable. Now I know it's not easy. Many times you enter this business world, a very competitive world, sometimes I feel confident, sometimes I am afraid, but I always seek a solution, either within myself or from others. What do you think? I don't have much, I am reluctant to ask for help. I have always believed that the sum of things is better. So the more difficulty I have in solving something, the more I seek others, other people. And about humanized leadership, I have had that since I was 12, 13, when I studied slavery more deeply. I don't know, you may know that the country was the second longest in duration, 389 years. So slavery was a very heavy thing. People had no homes, no clothes, they were beaten, and it left very strong marks. Those who came involuntarily were black families. So we had a problem of slavery and a problem of racism together, where slavery brought poverty, racism, inequality. And since that time, I felt that I had to be a protagonist to help erase those years, that it was not just a matter for the government, but for civil society and every Brazilian who did not live through that sad cycle, the cycle of slavery. So I had this commitment from a young age. That's why I think I became a businesswoman with a social purpose, because I carry that with me. Damn, it's so sad, I have to help overcome that moment, those sad years. So that's it.

I usually say you have to look at diversity from two sides. One side is that everyone is equal, it's a side of purpose, of values that we should carry. You cannot treat a person because of their skin color or because they are older. I mean, that's not fair. I'm speaking for myself. So that's the purpose side. Now let's look at the business side, the more technical side. Brazil is a country that is over 50% women, 52% people who call themselves black, over 18 million disabled people, and it's also aging. So how are you going to deal with that, with innovation and everything, if you don't have people representing that consumer at the table? Now I'm speaking from the rational side, the more technical side. So I usually say, if you don't do it for purpose, do it because it brings profit, right? Logically, now speaking about the black trainee program, we always said we need more black people, because in the company, the fastest way to get to director or higher positions is through a trainee program in a retail company. So we always said let's bring them, but when it came down to it, we didn't find them, etc. Until it's interesting, the idea of doing a black trainee program wasn't mine, but since 2017 I had been saying let's bring more, but we didn't find any. Then Frederico said: 'Then let's do a trainee program just for blacks.' And they involved me, there were over 20,000 applicants. On a Friday, they launched it together with Lázaro Ramos, who launched internally with Lázaro Ramos, who was here, who was writing a book about it, to our 40,000 employees and more outsourced workers. Look, we are going to do a black trainee program that we will open to all of Brazil. And they called me to do that internal TV with employees. We did it, and that night they sent a note to the newspaper to get subscriptions,

After we launched it. And then it was a very aggressive week, I think, even though I am used to paradigm shifts being heavy, we never expected the reaction we got. They issued a summons to the prosecutor's office, there was a lot of opposition, but it only lasted a week, and then we had people who said it was whining, but we had a lot of support, not only from the black community, but from people who believe that equality is for everyone, not just for some.

From then on, let me tell you what I felt. First, it was a heavy week, fifteen days, then it died down. Frederico sent a letter on Sunday night saying, look, I want to change my company, and I will continue changing, but that doesn't mean I will change Brazil, so to speak, you don't need to worry about that. Politely he changed, he sent a letter, Frederico is the master of the company, he wrote that, and then he calmed things down, and then we started to invert the situation, we started to be an example, not just in Brazil but abroad. How many movements specific to blacks that were not trainees were born after ours? Many, many movements. And what do you think? Besides having diversity, if you walk down the hall here at the central office, you find a great diversity, which brings innovation, more competence, and I think you also feel that we are always eager to know how it was done, what was done, what the effects were. So it was an example, like the example of the vaccine, like in a marital fight no one interferes, Magalu was the one to intervene at a time when no one spoke of it. Today, if there is violence against women, all channels talk about it, but it was a... So we have contributed to changing limiting beliefs and many things, even if we pay some price, but in life you always pay a price. So today, the black trainee program, we did one after 10 people, there was no need to increase the number of those here. We have been with them always. Now we did one just for people who work all over Brazil. It was for men and women, and we managed to bring women into that area. So we are always doing different things. That's why I'm saying, it's a company purpose, it brings with it equality, democracy, feminism. What is feminism? It's men and women being treated equally. Who has a daughter or granddaughter that doesn't want her to be treated with the same opportunity? That's feminism, but we distort some things. So I think it's a very positive thing. Now, like everything in life, you won't have unanimity. When they say I am in favor of Bolsa Família, equality, she's a communist, etc. There are 13% who will say that, if you look. But when purpose is your backbone, you don't give it up, because you know you are above that.

I'll give you a more practical example. I even agree that this interference from the US in ESG policies may have shaken things up a bit. But let me tell you something practical. We have today 1,284 stores spread across Brazil. Tell me: if one of our employees treats a black person badly inside a store, don't you agree that by the end of the day the person can have five followers and everyone is talking about it or not?

certainly had some progress. So, but who rules is the people. You know that there have been companies that spent a lot due to problems even with outsourced workers who mistreat people. So it's like that, we may have changed, but the people haven't changed, on the contrary,

but there has been a greater achievement, hasn't there? You are able to be here interviewing me with all your elegance. We have evolved, don't you agree?

Because you spoke of opportunity. So opportunity, who says: 'Ah, I am totally against quotas.' Well, I am against quotas if the opportunity were the same. And when you understand – I understood the definition of quota 13 years ago – you, anyone I'm talking to now who is watching, will agree with me. A quota is a transitory process to correct an inequality. She is well-trained, huh?

When you watched it, do you know when I discovered that?

The way I say it is easier. We are saying the same thing, but I am a translator here of what you say to bring it to... It is a transitory process to correct an inequality. In the company today, we don't need to have quotas for disabled people anymore. We don't need to, because at a time we did, because we weren't looking, because disabled people always have those who live on welfare, who don't care, who are just there, that also happens in the normal population. But there are always those in times of crisis. You can't imagine how much the disabled person helps here. They are people who don't see, don't hear, can't walk properly. And when we see that problem, our own problems become small compared to theirs.

is an example. You say: 'Wow, that person can't even hear and managed not to complain, why should I complain?' So I'm just reinforcing your word about opportunity, which is very important.

I can say it's not from now. I saw a statistic that 70% of the world's great leaders were born very poor, had great difficulties, both those who have money and lead. So it's much harder and more of a struggle, because you not only have to overcome the barrier of competence, but also of rejection. So you have, and as a woman you also have to overcome other different battles. So first I agree. I'm with you to try to remove the barriers, first within myself and then with others, because the first barrier you have to remove is with yourself, because it's years and years of beliefs that limit us. I agree that has to be done. On the other hand, I want to tell you that my effort for being a woman is worth much more today than if I hadn't made that effort, you know? So your effort for being black and arriving here has... imagine, with artificial intelligence that will be a tsunami, not only for black people or women, but for everyone. The most important thing you have is your content that you had to fight for, that gives content to artificial intelligence. It's not the tablet you have, not the system you have, because the change is huge. How are you going to give content to the edge? Because they take content from everything. So I tell people who are starting: don't deny anything that happens. Don't deny artificial intelligence, don't deny that if someone calls you a racist, don't deny it, because many times you are having attitudes that don't match what you believe. And that's something that improves life a lot.

I have a quote from Saint Augustine that I like very much, and I follow it religiously. First do the necessary, then the possible, and suddenly you are doing the impossible. So when I'm here with you, no matter how much I have going on, I had to get here, I have an agenda. When I sat down here, you noticed that I looked at you and I was completely present with you. At this moment I am doing the necessary. Suddenly I am doing the possible. You want to make a report that will help so many people, that no longer depends on me, it depends on you and me and those listening as well. And suddenly you are doing the impossible, which is creating laws that will do what is fair for everyone, through some mobility of yours. So, I don't know, I've done so much, I've received so much that I never dreamed was possible, that was impossible. So, first do the necessary, then the possible, and suddenly you are doing the impossible.

Yes, to finish, we are already coming to the end. I wanted you to talk a little about Brazil now, as a leader who really is passionate about our country, someone who... how can we transform our country into a great nation, how can we reduce these inequalities, and how do you think, first Brazil? Then I'll ask a question about yourself. I am passionate about Brazil. Every Monday here, today we already do it in our 100 units, we sing the national anthem, the company anthem, show the results that are good, that are not. Today it was one area, each Monday is a different area. In all the stores we do this. I am passionate. I have a daughter who lives in Portugal, married to a Portuguese man, grandchildren outside Brazil, with my daughter. But I never, I go there, I don't think about living there, you know? I think about living in Brazil. So I am a person very tuned in to Brazil, very tuned in. There is a group called Mulheres do Brasil. I tell you, we have one of the best countries in the world. I'll tell you why. We have an amazing economic diversity. While here it's coffee, there it's soy, there it's something else. We have a resource that is water. We are among the two or three countries with the most water in the world. We have a people very prepared for startups. We are startups. Our spirit is startup. Do a lot of things, go with the flow, suddenly you hit it. Wow, and cheerful, right? And with a capacity for overcoming, I have seen so many, that's why now I am giving much more voices to other women than to myself. They call me to do a panel, I invert it or ask the interviewer, because I am already known, I want to give more voices to more women and more people. So the country is diverse, economically diverse, people-wise. The South is one thing, the Northeast is another. You learn from the Northeast joy, looseness. You learn from the South a little more discipline. It has everything to succeed. Then you ask me why it hasn't succeeded, why it hasn't yet. I don't like to say we have already succeeded, because we lack a strategic plan for the country up to 2040.

So if you had a plan that was above party interests, where Brazil was above everything else and everyone would have it, but for that the people need to know. So for me, what is missing is this planning. I remember when Japan made a plan up to 2020, we should make one up to 2040 here, which is 12 years, 13 years from now, that is very fast, right? We are in 2014, 13 and a half years to make a plan, right? So I think this, I am totally against reelection. I think that reelection should be 5 years and no reelection, especially for president and governor. But on the other hand, I feel that we have advanced in many things, but there is still much to advance. But it is a country ready to grow. Now, what is also missing is self-esteem. There is none. People badmouth the country left and right. I mean, at the slightest thing they talk bad, but I feel like slapping them when they say that, as if it's not Brazil. Look at this studio: 'Wow, I went to the studio just for internal use, it doesn't even look like Brazil.' No slap. That's how it is in Brazil, our studio can be like that anywhere you make it. So I think self-esteem is missing. No, I also have immense love for our country, a hope, serving the Brazilian army, right? So, we take that national love,

Well, I think I would like to be seen as a person who played in the band and didn't let the band pass by, because I am involved in many things and I raised my children also to play in the band. I am setting this example that sometimes it's out of tune, sometimes tired, sometimes not in the same direction as everyone, but always with the same intention of doing the common good for all. I never will say that I became complacent. On the contrary, people say: 'How does she do it? Today she's here, tomorrow she's somewhere else, the next day another place.' So I think in that aspect, I don't know if I will be remembered that many years, but when they speak my name, they will have to say that I played in the band, because I fought a lot not to become complacent, because I think complacency does you a lot of harm. Also energetic.

Thank you, you know? For the joy, the satisfaction. I thank you. Many thanks.