Hello, welcome to the Equidade channel. Today I have the honor of receiving one of the greatest business leaders in Brazil's history. A woman who transformed a family retail chain into a national powerhouse, helped redefine the concept of humanized leadership in the corporate environment. [music] She became a reference in innovation, entrepreneurship, social development, and female leadership. Chair of the Board of Directors of Magazine Luiza and founder of the group Mulheres do Brasil. I have the honor of receiving the extraordinary Luiza Helena Trajano. This is the Equidade channel. [music] It is with immense satisfaction and great honor that I receive today on the Equidade channel the extraordinary Luiza Helena Trajano. I want to talk to you today, to have this honor to talk a little about the citizen, the woman, this extraordinary person who, besides being one of the greatest business leaders in the country, is also a person of humanized leadership. But I want to go back, ask you: when you close your eyes, do you remember that little girl and Aunt Luiza? What comes to your mind? What values does that little girl have, things from your childhood that help you make decisions to this day?
So, I don't think there is anything I remember that I use to take action. I am very grateful for the kind of upbringing I had. I was raised by strong women who believed in the strength of women when it was still very difficult. So I think believing that everything has a solution, except illness, and that you have to seek a solution for everything. When I came home from school telling some problem at school, with friends, with my mother, or with the teacher, my mother would say: 'What did you do to solve it?' Not 'poor dear, I'll call the school.' So I was raised with little self-pity but with the belief that I was capable. Now I know it's not easy. Many times you enter this business world, a very competitive world, sometimes I feel confident, sometimes I am afraid, but I always seek a solution, either within myself or from others. What do you think? I don't have much, I am reluctant to ask for help. I have always believed that the sum of things is better. So the more difficulty I have in solving something, the more I seek others, other people. And about humanized leadership, I have had that since I was 12, 13, when I studied slavery more deeply. I don't know, you may know that the country was the second longest in duration, 389 years. So slavery was a very heavy thing. People had no homes, no clothes, they were beaten, and it left very strong marks. Those who came involuntarily were black families. So we had a problem of slavery and a problem of racism together, where slavery brought poverty, racism, inequality. And since that time, I felt that I had to be a protagonist to help erase those years, that it was not just a matter for the government, but for civil society and every Brazilian who did not live through that sad cycle, the cycle of slavery. So I had this commitment from a young age. That's why I think I became a businesswoman with a social purpose, because I carry that with me. Damn, it's so sad, I have to help overcome that moment, those sad years. So that's it.
No, it's important to hear that from you, right? Right away in a question about childhood, you already bring all those values and concerns. Childhood, I read about that and committed myself to being a protagonist and not just watching the band go by. And I spoke a lot, many years. So I was aware that I could be there to help alleviate that. And taking advantage of this powerful reflection you bring, ma'am, already as Magalu, you had the trainee program project, right, thinking about giving real opportunity to black people in tactical, strategic spaces in organizations. And that was some time ago. What reflection and what did you take from that experience? How did it impact not only Magalu but your entire trajectory?
I usually say you have to look at diversity from two sides. One side is that everyone is equal, it's a side of purpose, of values that we should carry. You cannot treat a person because of their skin color or because they are older. I mean, that's not fair. I'm speaking for myself. So that's the purpose side. Now let's look at the business side, the more technical side. Brazil is a country that is over 50% women, 52% people who call themselves black, over 18 million disabled people, and it's also aging. So how are you going to deal with that, with innovation and everything, if you don't have people representing that consumer at the table? Now I'm speaking from the rational side, the more technical side. So I usually say, if you don't do it for purpose, do it because it brings profit, right? Logically, now speaking about the black trainee program, we always said we need more black people, because in the company, the fastest way to get to director or higher positions is through a trainee program in a retail company. So we always said let's bring them, but when it came down to it, we didn't find them, etc. Until it's interesting, the idea of doing a black trainee program wasn't mine, but since 2017 I had been saying let's bring more, but we didn't find any. Then Frederico said: 'Then let's do a trainee program just for blacks.' And they involved me, there were over 20,000 applicants. On a Friday, they launched it together with Lázaro Ramos, who launched internally with Lázaro Ramos, who was here, who was writing a book about it, to our 40,000 employees and more outsourced workers. Look, we are going to do a black trainee program that we will open to all of Brazil. And they called me to do that internal TV with employees. We did it, and that night they sent a note to the newspaper to get subscriptions,
After we launched it. And then it was a very aggressive week, I think, even though I am used to paradigm shifts being heavy, we never expected the reaction we got. They issued a summons to the prosecutor's office, there was a lot of opposition, but it only lasted a week, and then we had people who said it was whining, but we had a lot of support, not only from the black community, but from people who believe that equality is for everyone, not just for some.
From then on, let me tell you what I felt. First, it was a heavy week, fifteen days, then it died down. Frederico sent a letter on Sunday night saying, look, I want to change my company, and I will continue changing, but that doesn't mean I will change Brazil, so to speak, you don't need to worry about that. Politely he changed, he sent a letter, Frederico is the master of the company, he wrote that, and then he calmed things down, and then we started to invert the situation, we started to be an example, not just in Brazil but abroad. How many movements specific to blacks that were not trainees were born after ours? Many, many movements. And what do you think? Besides having diversity, if you walk down the hall here at the central office, you find a great diversity, which brings innovation, more competence, and I think you also feel that we are always eager to know how it was done, what was done, what the effects were. So it was an example, like the example of the vaccine, like in a marital fight no one interferes, Magalu was the one to intervene at a time when no one spoke of it. Today, if there is violence against women, all channels talk about it, but it was a... So we have contributed to changing limiting beliefs and many things, even if we pay some price, but in life you always pay a price. So today, the black trainee program, we did one after 10 people, there was no need to increase the number of those here. We have been with them always. Now we did one just for people who work all over Brazil. It was for men and women, and we managed to bring women into that area. So we are always doing different things. That's why I'm saying, it's a company purpose, it brings with it equality, democracy, feminism. What is feminism? It's men and women being treated equally. Who has a daughter or granddaughter that doesn't want her to be treated with the same opportunity? That's feminism, but we distort some things. So I think it's a very positive thing. Now, like everything in life, you won't have unanimity. When they say I am in favor of Bolsa Família, equality, she's a communist, etc. There are 13% who will say that, if you look. But when purpose is your backbone, you don't give it up, because you know you are above that.
That's very important, because we're living in a time of much controversy, right? You see diversity, inclusion, even ESG, in the US it's being fought, many companies disengaged, but you notice that those who really had purpose, who were doing it because it's in their DNA, kept these programs. And I was going to ask you exactly that, because looking at our country and you, how do you transcend being a businesswoman? You are a great leader, in my opinion, to transform the future of our country. And I see that I am always in this dilemma, this reflection, my trajectory always takes talent and opportunity into account. And I realize that our country is extremely talented, but also immensely inaccessible for some underrepresented segments of our population. I would like you to talk a little about how we can fight against inequality, bring more inclusion, more equity. What are you thinking about for the future?
I'll give you a more practical example. I even agree that this interference from the US in ESG policies may have shaken things up a bit. But let me tell you something practical. We have today 1,284 stores spread across Brazil. Tell me: if one of our employees treats a black person badly inside a store, don't you agree that by the end of the day the person can have five followers and everyone is talking about it or not?
Yes. Well, it's not like you said at the beginning of our chat, that suffering. We
certainly had some progress. So, but who rules is the people. You know that there have been companies that spent a lot due to problems even with outsourced workers who mistreat people. So it's like that, we may have changed, but the people haven't changed, on the contrary,
from the point of view of discrimination, whether racial, or now everything happening with women, this femicide, the issue of the elderly, which are rights we conquered, let's say, from last century to this one, right? Legislation has been passed, a series of things. From an economic point of view, I still see that we have,
but there has been a greater achievement, hasn't there? You are able to be here interviewing me with all your elegance. We have evolved, don't you agree?
In the midst of many white men and white women, right? Today you are the interviewer of this program, I'm not a white person here interviewing me, and rightly so, because you know what it means. So we also have to celebrate the conquests and not stop there. Now we are at a point where we want 50% women in top positions, black women, all kinds of women in top positions, because we believe that we don't want to take the place of men, on the contrary, we want to be together with men to decide what happens. We have 40, so we women, black people, we have evolved, but that doesn't mean we've reached the point of being complacent. But if you don't celebrate the phase, you keep seeking things that are already there. But that's not why we will stop this movement. We want to have 50, we want to take another leap in inequality for the good of the country.
No, I perfectly understood what you brought, really celebrating the conquests and we certainly want to advance more. As founder of the group Mulheres do Brasil and speaking about racial issues as well, gender and race, I have two friends there, Elizabe and Eliane Leite, who are very proud. I know many other black women who are part of it. So that's it, we really want to conquer these, I understand a lot.
Because you spoke of opportunity. So opportunity, who says: 'Ah, I am totally against quotas.' Well, I am against quotas if the opportunity were the same. And when you understand – I understood the definition of quota 13 years ago – you, anyone I'm talking to now who is watching, will agree with me. A quota is a transitory process to correct an inequality. She is well-trained, huh?
No, I watched that a long time ago.
