Hello and welcome to Esprit d'Entreprise, the program of major interviews on Figaro TV, the show that gives a voice to business leaders. Hello Olivia, hello Gaan. Today we are pleased to welcome Franck Gervais. Hello, hello. You are the CEO of Pierre et Vacances. 1.9 billion euros in revenue, 12,500 to 12,600 employees, 8 million customers, and you are a bit of the king of family vacations in various forms. You invented the tourist residences where you can rent apartments with à la carte services. You own Center Parcs with those cottages that many French people know, the Adagio aparthotels, the Maeva campsites, and many other things. It hasn't always been easy for the Pierre et Vacances group, which faced difficulties, especially during COVID, with a major financial restructuring. But now that's all behind you; you have become profitable again and have many projects. We'll come back to the change in model you initiated for the group, your projects in the hotel industry, especially for Pierre et Vacances. You'll tell us about the enthusiasm for camping, since Gaan mentioned you are not only in residences but also in camping with Maeva. You'll explain how to run a group like Pierre et Vacances in today's complicated environment. But first, let's talk about your business: vacations. We are in the middle of the ski season, which is in full swing. How is it going at Pierre et Vacances?
It's going well. What we see is that we are coming out of the February vacations, so we can already take stock. We had 97% occupancy of our vacation residences in the mountains, so basically they were full. 97% is really just for the February vacations. You are full all the time. We had 100% during the second week of the Christmas vacations, the week of New Year's, 100%, not a single apartment left. And now 97%, so it's a huge success. What we see is that the destinations, the resorts that are the most famous, like the Three Valleys, Paradiski, are doing extremely well. People are really going for safe bets. How many resorts are you in? We have 50 residences in the mountains, so about thirty resorts, mainly in the Alps, but also in the Pyrenees. What we also saw is that foreigners are still there, making up 40% of our clientele during the February vacations. And something we started 2-3 years ago: everyone used to do Saturday-to-Saturday vacations, with traffic jams for those driving. Many people take the train, but some still drive. So we also shifted to Sunday arrivals, and now 15% of arrivals are on Sunday, shifted. It's more peaceful. So does that mean the mountain model is changing? People say people are going less to ski, less to the mountains because it's expensive, because there's less snow. But in fact, it's working very well. The mountains are doing very well. But it will evolve, and we need to look ahead. We have to project ourselves into a world where the mountains will change, and the number of resorts with guaranteed snow will inevitably decrease in 10 or 20 years. We can't fool ourselves. So we are in more than 90% of our residences in resorts located above 1800 meters, where snow is almost guaranteed. And then there will be something for all seasons. Just because you're in the mountains doesn't mean you can't adapt the services. Exactly, we adapt to spring and summer. We see more and more vacationers coming in the summer, families coming to the mountains in the summer. But it's true that in a planning logic between what is done for ski lifts and accommodation, all actors must, I think, concentrate their efforts on renovating buildings. There is a huge need for renovation on sites that truly have a reason to remain because the snow will still be there in 10, 20, 30 years. What do you do in the summer? Do you offer new activities? There are plenty of activities: mountain biking, summer luge, rafting. Summer luge, of course. And it's very popular. We have more and more families coming back. Often for a week, they won't stay three weeks, but that's also the trend in vacations. Before, you would take three weeks and choose one place and stay there. When I was a child, that's what we did. Now families tend to choose three places for one week each, or two places for ten days. That's the new trend. You said earlier that your villages, your residences, were full. We keep hearing that the French are tightening their belts. Apparently you don't feel that in your business. What we see is that the French still prioritize vacations. Clearly, it's an area where they haven't cut back. There was the revenge travel after COVID; they couldn't travel, they couldn't. The desire to treat themselves, enjoy life, have exceptional moments, travel, discover—that has been preserved. Now they really demand that they are ready to spend a budget, but satisfaction must be there. So the product and experience must be impeccable, otherwise it's unforgivable. And they are right.
So does that mean that the mountain model, people say people are going less to ski, less to the mountains because it's expensive, because there's less snow, but in fact it's working very well?
It's working very well, but it will evolve, and we need to look ahead. We have to project ourselves into a world where the mountains will change, and the number of resorts with guaranteed snow will inevitably decrease in 10 or 20 years. We can't fool ourselves. So we are in more than 90% of our residences in resorts located above 1800 meters, where snow is almost guaranteed. And then there will be something for all seasons. Just because you're in the mountains doesn't mean you can't adapt the services. Exactly, we adapt to spring and summer. We see more and more vacationers coming in the summer, families coming to the mountains in the summer. But it's true that in a planning logic between what is done for ski lifts and accommodation, all actors must, I think, concentrate their forces on renovating buildings. There is a huge need for renovation on sites that truly have a reason to remain because the snow will still be there in 10, 20, 30 years. What do you do in the summer? Do you offer new activities? There are plenty of activities: mountain biking, summer luge, rafting. Summer luge, of course. And it's very popular. We have more and more families coming back. Often for a week, they won't stay three weeks, but that's also the trend in vacations. Before, you would take three weeks and choose one place and stay there. When I was a child, that's what we did. Now families tend to choose three places for one week each, or two places for ten days. That's the new trend. You said earlier that your villages, your residences, were full. We keep hearing that the French are tightening their belts. Apparently you don't feel that in your business. What we see is that the French still prioritize vacations. Clearly, it's an area where they haven't cut back. There was the revenge travel after COVID; they couldn't travel, they couldn't. The desire to treat themselves, enjoy life, have exceptional moments, travel, discover—that has been preserved. Now they really demand that they are ready to spend a budget, but satisfaction must be there. So the product and experience must be impeccable, otherwise it's unforgivable. And they are right.
So you don't just operate residences; you are also in camping, which has always existed but has seen a renewal of vacations with Maeva. So does it work? Is there still this enthusiasm for camping?
There is still enthusiasm for camping, but it's not the same camping as 20 years ago. It's premium camping. In a Canadian tent with mosquitoes? That still exists, but it's increasingly rare. What we call bare pitches, where you put your tent, now most pitches are occupied by mobile homes that are very, very close to what you can find in a Center Parcs cottage or a Pierre et Vacances apartment in terms of quality, comfort, and product. So ultimately, there is a real continuum between what we offer on the camping side with Maeva, what we offer on the Pierre et Vacances side, and what we offer on the Center Parcs side. So it works enormously, more and more. Camping and Maeva started as a distributor, a platform, a French-style distribution platform with two characteristics: it's French and has a notion of service, truly guaranteed service. We did something: if you choose your vacation, your pitch, you arrive, you rented an apartment or a campsite, and you don't like it, there's no criteria, you tell us you don't like it, you get a refund. We launched this 'satisfied or refunded' thing. So it's a French service platform. And we thought, what's often missing is that a platform is quite distant from the consumer. You book, but then if there's a problem, they tell you to go see the operator. So we said, let's also go into the world of operations. So we operate campsites ourselves. We have about fifty campsites under the Maeva brand, with concepts very close to the territories and nature. And it's a hit. In February and March, we already see that reservations for this summer are very, very strong. And overall, the trend is that people are booking camping, apartments, or Center Parcs much further in advance, six months to a year in advance. I met clients yesterday who told me they loved their experience at Arc 1950 so much that they booked for February 2026. Vacations are sacred. Then it drops a bit, and then three weeks before your stay, there are still plenty of offers on the market. Flexibility is there, so you decide based on the weather and desires. So we have a U-shaped curve now.
Okay, let's come back to your strategy. The group went through a difficult period; you were in the red, in losses for 12 years. How did you turn things around?
The group was in the red for 10 years, negative net results for 10 years, for one reason: it didn't necessarily evolve as the business and new customer trends demanded. It was born on property development historically, and that was the name Pierre et Vacances: Pierre is stone, not the first name, it's stone and vacations. Stone because we were a property developer. And that was a stroke of luck, and we still benefit from it today because we have the most beautiful locations in France, Spain, Germany, on the Côte d'Azur, the Atlantic coast, Brittany. We were a property developer, so for Pierre et Vacances we have 200 residences in unique locations. But then we didn't know how to evolve because we were both a property developer and a tourism operator. It was complicated to do both; it was unclear for investors, required very high investments, we had industrial accidents. In short, we had to evolve, and the group didn't see that it needed to evolve. That's the past, it is what it is. So in fact, you outsourced. And I arrived saying we will outsource the real estate. So we will no longer be a property developer; we are a tourism operator. And to grow, it's important to develop. We have new projects. We want to grow through what we have in the stock, but we also want new locations. We are going to Denmark for Center Parcs, we are signing about 1,000 apartments per year for Pierre et Vacances in France and Spain. So it's fundamental, but it's no longer us doing it; it's specialists. And we rent these locations from them, or we don't rent them, we operate them in what is called asset-light. But we are no longer a property developer, no, not much real estate assets. So we simplified the business model, as they say, but in any case we made it much more readable, much less risky. And that's what penalized us for years. So we refocused, and now we are on proximity tourism in 5 countries in Europe. And in each of our countries, 70% of our clientele is domestic. And we want to attract more and more customers to a product that is always of better quality, better priced, but remains affordable, very affordable. And that's our strategy. We called it reinvention because we believe in this reinvention of a much more modern tourism.
So what works very well is Center Parcs, which you bought, I don't remember when, a few years ago? 2003, it was already 20 years ago. You just opened in Denmark, you are going to open in Denmark. You are very present in Northern Europe. Are you going to develop this concept more in the sun? What is your opening policy for Center Parcs?
Center Parcs, first of all, to situate it: we have 29 today, 30 in June, so we will have 30 in 5 countries. What is a Center Parcs? It's a place in the heart of nature, generally 200 hectares, so really immense, where you have your cottage that accommodates you. You can be with your family or friends. And inside the Center Parcs, you enjoy about fifty activities in the heart of nature. It's the kingdom of children. You said we were the king of family vacations. Center Parcs is the kingdom of children. They have fun in the Aqua Mundo, the slides, the play areas, and they learn with their parents. And that's what parents love: they spend quality time with them. It's everything we miss in our urban lives. We say we don't have time to enjoy with our children, but here we have a good time while teaching them, and we learn ourselves as parents. And it stays with you for life. Everyone tells you, 'I went to a Center Parcs 20 years ago, and I still remember it.' Can we deploy it elsewhere? It's a concept we can deploy elsewhere. We deployed it. The last one opened in France two years ago between Bordeaux and Toulouse. It's the southernmost one we have today. And we wondered if it would work that far south because it's a concept open all year round. The Aqua Mundo is an aquatic space open all year round. It's a hit. So we are convinced that from Denmark to the south of France, and maybe even further south, Spain, Italy, it's a concept that will appeal to everyone. We are thinking about it because what's important is that we want to open a Center Parcs every 2 to 3 years in Europe. Then there are existing ones that we can expand. So we are very present in France, Belgium, the Netherlands. There is still some room in Germany, Denmark we talked about, the Baltic countries. And then I am convinced that Italy, for example, is a country that should quickly host a Center Parcs.
You had in your Pierre et Vacances residences a somewhat aging image a few years ago, with underinvestment issues. How do you restore some luster to that brand, especially in a period when you also decided to make savings? How do you manage these contradictory injunctions?
