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Good Wednesday to you, sir. How are you?
I'm great, man. To be honest with you, I'm... I mean, oh wow, you know, it's just I feel good. I physically feel good.
I'm feeling good too, Chris. I like that. I'm glad to hear that. Why are you feeling good? Did you actually exercise today?
Yeah, I did a full kettlebell workout yesterday. I played some tennis this morning and I was using the big boy kettle, I was using the 50, not the 40 or whatever.
Wait, hold on. I want to clear something up on the record here since we are recording. How can you do a Turkish get-up with a 50-pounder?
Not so much. I'm using the smaller one for the GS.
Okay, that... no, I was just going to be really impressed because we were talking about this at the... one of the instructors at The Undefeated gym on Saturday was demonstrating the Turkish Get-Up and I said, 'That's funny, my partner and close friend, and I wouldn't even call him a fitness enthusiast, them jeans, can do a very heavy get-up, but a 35-pound is nothing to shake a stick at.'
No, it's nothing to shake a stick at. I mean, just doing one regular, you know, balancing a man shoe on your hand versus a kettlebell, it's tough. And I'm kind of going slow back into it with the whole knee thing and making sure I'm not pushing myself far beyond the limits. But you know, yeah, we can't have TJ on the injured reserve again because I know I'm just chomping at the bit to get back out on the court with you. And I think luckily we have something planned for later in the week, so I have something to look forward to besides just counting money.
We're on the iCal. You're able to get knocked down a few pegs in just a few short days, Chris. Don't worry.
It's great. I love getting knocked down a few pegs. That's kind of my thing. Like when I'm forced to tweet about an NFT, people definitely let me know how they feel about me.
Let it out, brother. Let it out. And also, you know, I was taking a peek at the old infrared sauna this morning as well.
Cheaper than I thought. It looks like, you know, we're out of stock right now, but you can order them on Home Depot, Costco, all these places. You can get a two-seater home unit sauna that seems to be well-reviewed, easy to set up and install. You don't need any crazy power line setup, just plugs into the wall.
Yeah, what do you do? Do you just plug it in?
Yeah, it just plugs into the wall like your goddamn iPhone charger or anything. And you know, you get into it for 1,300, 1,400 bucks. You split that with Bay, really. It's not bad at all to be able to have a sweat every single day. You just wake up, go boom, right into the sauna.
I like that a lot. And I think it's going to cause me to spend even more time in the suburbs, which is sad but true. But yeah, I think I might pop in, you know, I could hop the fence. I don't know where you're going to keep this thing, but I feel like it has to go outdoor, right?
I'm going to be able to put it in the office where I'm recording right now. I can still keep the bed, my desk with my computer and everything on here. I'll have to move the TV out, but you know, we've lived here for two years and I've never watched TV in here. It's just kind of sitting there because it was an extra one.
You know what I think you should do? I think you should mount the TV on the wall above the computer and have our Chartable just kind of running.
I have the ticker, I have the Anchor window open, so we're seeing our views, we're seeing the till go up as people listen, we're seeing new ads come in. It'll make you feel like action.
Yeah, that's what I always liked when I first went into executive offices in the mid-2000s. You know, it would be a music business office, so I'd go into this guy's office and he's got a TV with MTV on, you know, or VH1. I'm like, 'This is sick, I didn't think you could watch TV at work.' Or you know, when you're watching The College Admission Scandal and they go into the athletic director's office at Stanford and he's just watching basketball games during meetings. That sounds like a nice little vibe.
Oh yeah, when he's not paying attention and he's just watching the basketball game. Very cool. But yeah, it's feeling good, Chris. The only thing that I need to worry about now is I worry that I'm going out and I'm not used to going out and outdoor dining and a full packed social calendar. It kind of came a little out of nowhere. It's coming hard and fast, like a fast-bation process. It's been a little tough for me. I went from, you know, my partner and I, every day we'll walk the dog and then decide which cool healthy meal we're going to cook that night. And now it's like, okay, I got this dinner on here, we're going to this guy's house this day, we got a reservation on Friday. I have to start rationing out my alcohol consumption so I'm not getting drunk every night with this breakneck podcast schedule and my other professional commitments as well as social commitments. I am feeling spread thin as well, but it's a good thin. You know, like most thins, it's a good thin. Except for, you know, there's three thins: there's body, wheat, and there's a few other ones. But wheat might be my favorite. I had to choose the bad things, you know.
Hair. That's about it. That actually is about it. Yeah, I can't think of another one. I guess wallet, you know, maybe. But you know, I guess pocket's looking thin. I like a slim wallet design, you know what I mean? Man on the go like myself.
Don't start. What's that wallet that Tim Dillon advertised? I thought you were about to launch into it.
Ridge Wallet. Ridge Wallet. Nothing wrong with a low-profile design. Ridge Wallet, available in lots of different colors. Can you bleep out Ridge Wallet, please? I don't want to give them free bands.
Yeah, the social calendar is bouncing back. And I saw someone from New York yesterday who had been in LA for a few days and he's saying that LA still feels more loose than New York.
Oh yeah, for sure, for sure. Vibe-wise, yeah, because we have the option of having our clandestine meetings and you don't really get to do that so much in New York. You kind of have to go out to places unless you know somebody who has a big ass house.
Oh, luckily I do. You know what I'm saying? No, I'm just kidding. I actually don't really know people with big ass houses, unfortunately. I would love to go to a big ass house with a pool. You know, plenty of rich New Yorkers and they don't really have huge houses. That's just how it goes over there.
Well, you got to pump that money into your house out east, you know, Jason. Not to put you onto the terminology, but I just think you need to get... honestly, after doing this podcast for a year with you, I do see some holes in your New York knowledge and I think it's time you get back to the Big Apple and re-acclimate yourself with the city so nice they named it twice.
What kind of holes are we talking about, Chris?
I don't know, man. I just feel like I've got a real grip on Los Angeles and the surrounding areas from spending time with locals. And maybe, look, I knew what First and First was when you guys were talking about it.
No, you did not. You thought it was a vaccine term.
I may know more than you, but you know, I've at least been to Brooklyn, where I know that you don't know anything about other parts of New York.
No, I know a lot about Brooklyn. It looks like shit. It takes a long time to get there. There's a few good restaurants. What more do I need to know?
I think that you could use a good refresher. We could pick you up and just drop you and let you figure out your way. We're going to drop you at First and First with no iPhone and you got to go.
I've done that before where I've picked myself up and dropped myself in New York and then walked. I would go uptown to some restaurant that I was meaning to check out and then just be like, 'Fuck it, I'm just going to walk all the way back downtown.' It'll take two hours.
Oh God, Joe, don't do this. I'm going to start crying. My move used to be I take the train uptown to hit Gagosian and then The Row and then maybe have a bite at Sant Ambroeus Uptown. Maybe hit Barney's, have lunch at Barney's, a classic at Fred's, rest in peace Fred's, and then you just keep walking. I've done that every Saturday. The difference is, Jason, I was absolutely zoned out on pills, so it did make me feel like I was floating, but also getting moving my body. It's a very strange sensation to be zoned but feel like you're exerting energy and be a little sweaty because if you walk that much, no matter what the temperature is, you're going to get a little ripe under the pits.
That's odd, because for me when I'm zoned out on pills, I'm sad that I have to get up and fill up my glass of water or use the restroom, let alone traverse through.
There's two things, Jason. There's called recreational drug users and functioning drug addicts. So let me make that differentiation for you, not to mansplain. But I mean, a functioning drug addict, they'll do that walk because they have to, not because they want to. You know what I mean? Let me tell you something. What feels better than being zonked out on oxies surrounded by beautiful clothing in a rich neighborhood? That's literally it for me.
But did you ever get so zonked out that you would just pull the card out and just run on it?
We don't look at PRI, okay? You never blacked out and woke up surrounded by a bunch of Row bags and being like, 'What did I get myself into?'
No, I've never blacked out. And actually, Chris, did you buy another Richard Prince? I told you not to do that. I told you not to go there with the card.
But yeah, I miss Uptown. It's a different... the air is different, the vibe is different. But you know, we'll be back soon. But I'll be back soon. We're warming up over there, right?
Warming up, baby. It's time to go back. I mean, it's about time. We're not just going to Indianapolis, let me say that. It's time for us to get back on the road. Honestly, it's partly this show takes a lot out of us, but we got to be inspired, Jason, like other artists. We must be. When they say, 'Where do you find out what you write about?' Writer J.K. Rowling, you know. Unless you go out and experience life in the world, you will have nothing to give when the microphone is hot. In the words of Morrissey, Jason, that you've quoted recently, 'I want to see people, I want to see life.' And it has to be... everyone needs to see people and needs to see life, but a true artist, they want to do it. And that's kind of the difference. They want to do it and they want the people to be hot. That's the difference as well. Not to make it... 'I want to see people and I want to see life,' as long as those people are not fatties.
Exactly. And I think that's understood on this podcast. But yeah, I'm looking forward because those benches on Larchmont are great, but damn, I think my ass has indented those things. You know what I mean? I think they put a plaque that says 'Chris Black politic'd here, 2020 to 2021.'
I politic'd here. But yesterday, bro, did you know they... Get Him Tiger closes at 4:00 p.m.
Isn't that when Maru closes too? Or maybe not, maybe they stay up a little bit later. I don't like that. I think a coffee shop should open at 5:00 a.m. and close at 5:00 p.m.
Okay, so four is crazy. Five is the official end of the work day. I mean, LA, the official end of the work day is... it never begins, but in theory.
No, I mean, I guess maybe at some point they stayed up until 5:00 and then they ran the numbers.
It could be a COVID thing. Well, I mean, maybe initially you run the numbers and you're like, 'Well, between the hours of four and five we made $38 and we paid $300 in labor or whatever, it ain't worth it.' That's just how it goes. And also, the life of a barista, you got a lot to do. You got to get to band practice. You got to get to your acting coach, you're late. You got to buy paints, your watercolors dried up over the weekend. We'll talk to Tinker when we hit Indianapolis and see what hours those baristas keep. I feel like they might be a little bit more about their grown man business. Tinker, by the way, Tinker's opening at the airport, which is a big move. I'm very... that's very cool.
No, no, no, the airport in Indianapolis. I know. That's the big local business flex to be at the airport. I mean, some of my business ideas that I'm building out the pitch deck to send over to Sweetgreen soon, you know, sniff around, see if we can get any seed cash. But obviously the goal for all my F&B adventures is once you get syndicated in those airports, we're printing money. That's when you start... if you want to get money, today's guest would be a good place to start, Jason, if you want to pitch something.
I will. Yeah, I mean, that's kind of the whole point of this episode. I'll be coming at him hat in hand saying, 'Please, sir, this is how long gone Shark Tank Edition' with the genius retailer, triple OG legend, Millard, AKA Mickey Drexler. Who is... you probably suck at Business of Fashion, yes, losers. So, you know, Mickey is a classic New York retail guy who I've had the pleasure of knowing for the last three or four years, where he will call me out of the blue and ask me a lot of questions in a fun way that is engaging, which is kind of what a podcast is, I realize now. Did I say that? But no, no, Mickey was on the board of Apple with Steve Jobs. Mickey resurrected the Gap. He made J.Crew cool again. Started Ann Taylor. He started... he named Old Navy, Old Navy. He named Old Navy, which is a very good name. And he now has a business with his son and a designer named Sasha called Alex Mill. You can find that stuff online and they have a store in SoHo. But Mickey is down in Miami like a good snowbird. So let's tap in with the God and see if it's time for us to expand the How Long Gone empire.
Yes, let us. You're looking good. What happened to all the hair?
Well, I took it off and you know, it's free. As you can relate, you know what I mean? It's just nice to have this closely cropped. You know what I mean? It feels good.
Yeah, well, I had no choice.
Oh, start? I didn't start. Oh, okay, start. Oh, there you go. Okay, Mickey, when's the last time you had some hair? Let me see, Jason. I would say, you know what happened? Like some hair, I guess a full head of hair. Oh, no, not thick. In fact, I used to get my hair cut regularly. In fact, a long time ago, 30 years ago, someone would cut my hair, then said, 'Just take it off.' You know, you do this and you do that, and like you got an old car and the mechanic's like, 'Just sell the thing.' And I started a year ago to cut my own hair. I used to pay someone to do this. And then he came up to see me in the apartment and my wife's like, 'Who's that?' I said it was a new guy, just we were traveling, and that was the last haircut I had. Now I just use a little mini shaver and bada bing, bada boom.
Yeah, I like the process of hitting the barber, the relationship, the fade. You know, it's a... I'm doing it every 10 days, which does feel aggressive, but also, you know, it's a treat for me. It's a personal pleasure is how I look at it.
Yeah, well, I did it every seven days and I thought I needed to do it professionally. And he's been cutting my hair off and on for 25, 30 years. When I did an Annie Leibovitz shoot a million years ago is when I met him.
Mickey, I love a set haircut is what we call that. You know, and that's the best kind. It feels glamorous.
Yeah, so and then I realized that, I mean, like, now I'll cut it again soon. Every week I take the mini shaver and I cut it.
It looks good. Looks the same as Chris's, doesn't it?
Hey, right now Chris is shorter. And the debate I have now is do I take the attachment off the mini shaver and just really mask off, is what we call that.
We call that mask off. I would say go for it. I think you'll feel free.
Yeah, I'm gonna do it. I think you'll feel free right after this. I'm gonna go do it.
Exactly. Are you in New York? Are you in Miami? Where in the world are we?
I'm in Miami and I've been here most of the winter. We went back to New York twice.
Where are you? In LA or...?
Yeah, we're both in LA. I've been here for a while. I went back to New York for a little bit myself. I was in Atlanta before that. But you know, we're thinking about taking a little trip to Miami. It's calling us, I think, a little group trip.
Yeah, I like it here. Well, I think I like it because the weather also. And you know, we've all gotten into the habit of working wherever you are, which is incredible.
Yeah, it's cool. What do you think about this remote work as a guy who's been in offices for a very long time? Is it easy to get used to or are you having a difficult time with it?
No, I Zoom, and I'm not a computer person at all. I Zoom. You know, you changed from whatever we're supposed to do to Zoom. You're comfortable in the Zoom platform 100%. But I'm not in Google whatever. And this morning I went to see a technical guy to prepare myself for Google whatever it's called.
Hold on, you went to see a technical guy to prepare to podcast with us using Google Meet?
Yeah, right, right. Yeah, Meet, not meat. Yeah, just to be clear.
But it's basically Zoom, just Google-owned. It's very similar.
I know, but I don't know, I just never done it. So I worry too much about things like that. But I find working... I'd much rather be in an office, but we're getting it done pretty well through Zoom. I was in the office last week and you know, when you touch and feel and you're with the team, it's much more spontaneous on creativity than it is. But it's been fine and I think a lot of people are used to it. And the world goes on and I'm okay with it. Which is why, you know, if I ever moved somewhere, I'm not worried. People have got into a habit of working where they are. And what's going on down here is wild. I mean, people are moving like crazy.
Yeah, you're in the middle of spring right now, right?
Well, yeah, because it's really... it's crazy what's going on downtown. But I haven't been there or whatever they call Miami where it's happening.
Right, right, right. You stay off the beach during the day, you let the students have that.
You know how many years it's been since I've been on a beach?
What do you do then? Are you a pool guy? You don't go to the beach?
No, I'm a New York City... I work. I like wherever I am, I work. I don't go on the beaches, too boring. And I don't want sand all over me.
Do you like looking at a beach, Mickey?
I love looking at the water. That's what I love doing. Yeah, I love looking at the water. It's very peaceful and calms me.
It calms me. Yeah, I mean, I like going to Miami. You go to Soho House, hit the private beach, get you a little chair, maybe take an edible and just watch the world go by. You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, yeah. I don't have the patience. I have... there's a Yiddish term called 'spilus,' you know, ants in your pants.
Sure, sure. Yeah, thank you for giving us the Gentile version. I've heard that before. Spilus. I'm not a big beach guy either, but I do love the ocean. The restorative properties of the saltwater, I think, are quite good for me. But what are you doing activity-wise when you're not working in that warm weather? Are you on the tennis court? Are you on the golf course?
No, I joined a golf club here and I played twice and I hurt my back. I haven't played since I was a teenager. I wasn't bad. So I joined the club, I went out myself once and I kept missing the ball because I was swinging too hard. And I ended up being two or three weeks in physical therapy and I said, 'This is not worth it.' I went to see a back doctor, my wife's back doctor, and he said, you know, he's a big golfer, terrific guy about my age, he says, 'Don't play golf. Don't try to be good at it and just drop it because you're going to hurt yourself.' And that was it.
That's good advice. I like that. So what do you do? You don't do a lot. You work, you like to work, you walk.
I go to SoulCycle, which is here.
My man. And the schmoo, Mickey. I mean, we're sounding... you and I have a very similar track in life and I love to hear it. I love to schmoo too. That's probably my favorite hobby. It's been taken away from us.
Well, it has been, but now it's coming back slowly. I love to talk to people and I learn. And that's what I like to do. I used to ski. I stopped skiing last year because I almost injured myself. And I'm saying, 'Wait, if I'm going to fall on the mountain, I don't want to do that.'
If you're going to hurt yourself playing golf, then skiing definitely...
Exactly. Yeah, it's a high-risk activity for you. I used to play a lot of tennis and I stopped that because again, I was always injured. I played very competitively, not meaning I'm a great player at all, I just was competing a little beyond my capabilities.
You're a guy who wants to win is what you're saying.
Yeah, I like to win. And so I stopped. And it's kind of... I'm okay with what I do, which is plenty. Not nothing very athletic anymore.
What's your culinary expertise? Are you in the kitchen?
Who's cooking for you? Are you a restaurant guy or is somebody cooking for you at the house?
Someone cooks for us. Yeah, someone cooks for us.
Yeah, that's what... so Jason's an incredible cook and I think when this podcast really explodes and our pockets get nice and fat, I'm going to actually pay him to cook for me. It's going to be a weird situation, you know, because we split the duties here, but I couldn't have anybody else cooking for me.
Well, let's get it to explode.
Yeah, well, that's kind of why you're on here, Drexler. You're helping us.
I mean, look, I know this podcast unfortunately does not have a retail component yet, but there's other strategies that we can discuss while we have you. You know, if you have the good show component, if you're honest, if you're not full of it, if you're not performing and bullshitting, people love that. And most people are not direct and honest. So I think we're all tired of people performing when they're on whatever they're on.
The ancient art of schmoozing feels like it's kind of gone the way of the dodo as time progresses. What do you think? I think most people are always play-acting. I agree. Most people aren't open and honest. And when I hear someone being open, honest, and we all have issues we deal with, I like people who tell you what their issues are. They're not hiding, they're not trying to be extra smart or extra rich and extra this or extra that. I like down to earth. I grew up in the Bronx. I didn't know fancy people when I grew up. And I don't know if I knew bullshitters or not because everyone was kind of the same. But I always had an eye for shit. It's an instinct. And so you do a real show, you talk to people and you're honest and open. I think it works. And there's not enough people like that. So whatever this is worth, God bless you.
What do you think of the medium of podcasting in general? Is it something you particularly... I mean, I know you've been a guest on many shows, but do you listen to them as well?
You know, I'm very bad at editing my life in that regard or reading the right books. I don't listen and I don't have the patience. I have the patience of 10 minutes here and five minutes there. Someone today asked me for all my podcasts, so of course I will now include this.
That'd be great. When you appear on podcasts, do you go back and listen to yourself or does that sound like a nightmare to you?
Never. Not that it sounds like a nightmare, it's okay. I was very happy what I wrote for Colin yesterday. First, a woman who does, you know, she's terrific, she wrote it for me. And then I rewrote the whole thing because I said, you know, I wanted to focus it in. I wanted to be open about, you know, I always say, who are you? You are what you start with as a child. And someone says, 'Well, how do you get to do what you do?' I said, 'Let me tell you about my parents, my growing up, this pain and suffering, the good stuff, the bad stuff.' You know, but you never hear much of that.
Are you saying... is it time for the book? Like, when are we getting the book? Because it sounds like that's what you're warming up for.
Well, no, the truth is I started one about two years ago and I just didn't have the patience. And the writer didn't get me at all. And whatever I said, he tried to repeat what I said. It didn't work. I read it and I think I have a lot to say to young people and even older people who are in business or in life. Because my life, you know, I don't look at it as anything special or this, that, and the other thing. But I like to teach. I like to mentor. I like to tell people what my experiences are because no one ever told me a thing ever when I was growing up. I didn't have people who give you advice, mentor you, which is fine. I never realized when you get to be older and more comfortable in your life, your parents always have someone who will go see so-and-so, they're smart, they do this. It wasn't like that when I grew up in the 50s. It just wasn't.
Yeah, I mean, I think we need it to an extent. I think that young people are searching for answers specifically career-wise maybe more than ever. And I think that the industries that we work in also seem sort of impenetrable to a lot of people. You know, it seems intimidating, it seems very hard to break in. I mean, did you... I started working in retail, that was my first job, really. You know what I mean?
It was an independent store. It was like a boutique in Atlanta, a small streetwear store, had sneakers and stuff.
No, no. This predated Sid. Jason, though, did work at... where'd you work, Jason?
I worked at Sears and then at Anthropologie.
Wow. Wait, as like a career, full-time thing?
No, I was in high school at the time when I was working at Sears. I was selling pants.
Great thing to do. You know, I always say, be a server in a restaurant, work in a store, learn how to get your ass kicked a bit and learn what life's about. And then, you know, most people don't do that. They don't want to do that. It's beneath them, it's this, that, the other thing. It's crazy. That's called work and it's great work for a young person who starts. You know, I see so many resumes and I say to them, thousands, and I say, 'Is this the resume?' I say, 'So this is geared for you to get a good job? The whole thing is that you volunteer in this or you're passionate about it?' Give me a good server, you know, a waitress or a waiter, someone who worked this years.
Yeah, with that retail experience, restaurant experience, you learn what makes other people happy and how to give them that happiness and then keep it moving on to the next one.
