Future Female Forward | Fireside Chat | Betting on the Impossible | Kiran Mazumdar-Shaw

Well, I think I am just proud to have pioneered biotech in India. That really to me has been something I have really really been very proud of. And I think to see so many women entrepreneurs in the biotech sector is also something that makes me very inspired.

So, one thing that I am very proud of in Biocon is that 50% of our research employees are women. Big round of applause, ladies and gentlemen, that is true actually. And that's one division where we have gender parity. Which tells you the role women can play. And this is not about having an affirmative action. These are smart women. And these are women who have made it by merit. And I can tell you every time I meet these women, I just feel so good about the fact that what I had aspired for, what I wanted this company to represent, is happening right before me. And I think what we need to ensure is that we create a boundaryless world for women to enter, because I think there are too many boundaries even today. I mean, when I look at just the shop floors, it still is not very apparent that there is gender parity, and I know that it was the shop floor that turned me away from those brewing jobs. Because they felt that this is not the right environment for women. And I think that psyche still exists even today. Because I know that even in Biocon we have been able to get that gender parity on the shop floor. Hmm.

Of course it started with the fact that women were not allowed to function in second and third shifts. That's changed. I think many states have changed that policy, but it still becomes very onerous on companies to have women in night shifts because of the kind of security measures that you have to provide women. But I think this is the boundaryless world that we need to create so that women can participate in every aspect of corporate India and startups and anything. Hmm.

I think unfortunately there still is that credibility challenge. I mean, I constantly have to mentor young women who are starting companies, to basically help them through their challenge of raising capital. You know, for some reason, I think banks and financial institutions and venture funds are very reluctant to really invest in women. I mean, that's something which I have found. I think men have it easier. I think maybe they hustle their way through. Women don't hustle their way through. So I think it is unfair, and I think women have created some wonderful companies, but they are just not able to access the capital the way men can. So I think there still is that sort of old boys' club, because unfortunately the money is still in the hands of men. There are very few women who are investing as venture funds into women. And even the women who are investing in businesses often have teams that are sort of populated by men. And so I think again, when they take these decisions, I think women get a raw deal. Women get a raw deal, and we will address this issue with women here in the room as well as investors and former investors here in the room.

You know, the world doesn't wait for us. And we are moving too slowly. I think we need very rapid regulatory reforms, and I think we need to understand that if we want to play in the world and if we want to catch up with others who are sort of beating us to that game, we should do it fast. And the reason I say this is that we don't lack talent. Hmm. We don't lack resources very often, because let's face it, the government is also investing in innovation in a big way. There is enough money coming into the space for backing innovation. But I think the regulatory reforms that I am seeing to really leverage that innovation, and I mean leverage that, you know, the incentives to really translate into big successes, is not there. So I feel we need regulatory reforms. I mean, I think you and I had a chat that if you look at the kind of the virtuous cycle of investment, you know, an idea needs risk capital, seed capital to go to proof of concept, and the government is doing its bit to do there. But then you need follow-on capital to scale that idea, and that has to come from venture capital. And once you take that idea to the market, you know, when VCs exit into the capital markets, they reinvest, and that's how you create the virtuous cycle. Today we are very good at taking it up to proof of concept, but the follow-on venture capital is not coming through because of the poor exits that venture funds have in the capital markets. And then investors are not backing innovation the way they should because they are risk averse. So I think the risk appetite of the country has to really grow. We are too comfortable, and you know, we are too used to low risk, predictable returns on our investment. We are not willing to back new ideas. We are not willing to basically get excited about blue sky ideas. Like SpaceX will never, it would have never done well in India. You know, you don't think we could do a SpaceX in India because we don't have the risk appetite to be able to value it the way.

See, we have created an investment climate where investors are very happy with getting dividends and getting share buybacks. I don't think investors are getting excited about denying themselves with either dividends or share buybacks and investing that money into creating new technologies. So I think that's what I mean by saying that we have to change the way we think about investing. If you invest in new ideas, innovation, your share value should go up, and that should be your return. That's the way I look at it. You have to invest in companies that think ahead of the curve. You have to invest in companies that come up with new ideas. And I can tell you, I am mentoring a number of startups today who have the coolest ideas. But will they be valued? Will they be able to grow their ideas into very, very large impactful global businesses? Big question mark. Big question mark.

So, if you look at it, you know, biology holds the answer to many of the challenges we have in artificial intelligence itself. So if you look at all the neural network models that have helped to build AI, I think we are just scratching at the surface, because if you look at the way the human mind actually generates information, stores information, and retrieves information, that itself is so efficient compared to what we are doing in data centers. With 20 watts, we are able to do much more than what a data center can do, consuming huge amounts of energy and rare minerals on top of that. Think about a data center based on DNA chips. Okay, that's going to be very energy efficient and no rare minerals. Now that's blue sky thinking. But we have to start seeing how we can build those models. And that's where I think we need to have innovation that is invested in a big way. Because we have to think differently. And you know, when I think about DeepSeek and the way it sort of created a language model that completely disrupted the LLM and the cost of developing LLMs, I think we have to think that way. Because today innovation is about disrupting the status quo. Hmm. And that's what I believed in. You know, I believed in basically looking at the pharmaceutical market and seeing how to disrupt any expensive space. I did that with of course biosimilars. I did that with cell therapies. And I will keep doing that. Because you have to keep questioning that status quo, that wrong economic model which denies access to many of the patients who need it. So, the same thing holds true for AI and for any of these new technologies. Because everyone like a herd mentality is pursuing one model. Is there a way of disrupting that model? I am sure there are many ways of disrupting that model. And biology is one area which you can leverage to see if you can do something smarter. And I tell you why, because as a biologist, I know that before AI came into existence, before data science came into existence, it was an iterative science, it was a very primitive science. We did not know enough about biology. And when you just look at the immune system, we hardly understood the immune system. Today, thanks to technology, you have got deeper insights into biology, right? DNA. How does genomics work? I mean, that's the beauty of biology, which is so multi-faceted and interconnected that it gives you a quantum view of what information technology should look like.

Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. [laughs] Ha, but you know, I want for the benefit of everybody who is watching here in this room, but also people who are watching online and on TV, you know, take me through what you believe today on the back of the lessons and your own experience are crucial to an entrepreneur's success. How do you deal with failure? How do you manage failure? How do you learn from failure? Because that's equally important. Learning from success is important. But learning from failure is also important. And I know that it was your late husband, I think, who said that Biocon's story has a lot to do with aggressive scientific bets, but also with frugal financial discipline. And that's what I want you to talk to us about as well.

Yeah. So that was John's great line, because every time I used to get excited about a new scientific idea, he says, go for it. But remember, don't spend too much money. [laughs] But anyway, you know, apart from that, I would say that yes, I think every entrepreneur has to go through failure. If you don't make mistakes, if you don't learn from your failures, you will never be resilient. So that's why I think you need to be resourceful and resilient from learning from failures. In addition to that, I think I want every entrepreneur to start with an idea. Translating that idea is the most important part of entrepreneurship. So it's not about having a great idea, but have you translated it into a commercial success? That's the way you judge yourself. And if your idea remains small, you have failed. If you can scale up your idea, that's success. And then, for me, the big opportunity that we have in India is basically to take it to the world. Hmm. That to me is the ultimate sign of success. So I think I have always tried to build Biocon as a leading biopharmaceutical company from India for the world, and that is about making that global impact. You know, that's why I wanted to be a global company where I understood how I could actually make a difference to global healthcare. So I think that's just in my case, but I think every young entrepreneur today has to think about the big picture. How big can I take this idea? That's what it's about. And I find that a lot of entrepreneurs get stunted because they get frustrated. They don't have access to capital. They don't have people who believe in what they are doing. And it's a hard struggle. And therefore a lot of great ideas get destroyed. And I will give you a very good example in our own city of Bengaluru. The Simputer, which was the idea of a handful of scientists at IISc. Hmm. Was a great invention. I mean, it was an idea ahead of its time. Because it was a multilingual handheld computer. Hmm. Right? Which actually could connect with GPRS and the whole objective was to make it into a teaching tablet. It was ahead of Palm Pilot, it was ahead of iPad. And what happened? There were no takers, there were no backers, there was no investment, and ultimately it died. And yet that could have been India's story. That could have been India's tablet for the world. We never did that. So there are many such examples where we had these kinds of failures because we didn't invest enough. We didn't have the risk appetite. We didn't have confidence. We didn't believe in our own technologies. That's another problem. We don't believe in our own technologies, in our own capabilities. And we have plenty of it. When you speak to young people in Bangalore, you know, you said every time you come to Bangalore you get excited. I get excited every time I meet these young entrepreneurs, these young startups. Everyone has a cool idea, and I am just thinking to myself, I would have never got that idea. So I am just saying there is so much talent here. There is so much energy, but it needs to be backed with venture capital, with capital, period. You know. And I think we need to allow these ideas to translate into commercial success. That's what I am hoping for.

Well, sometimes I have to pinch myself to see if I've done all this. But you know, it's been a great journey. It's been a long journey, and I have done it myself. I have got a great team of people that's kept growing and growing and growing over the years. But yes, the early days were always very difficult. And I know the number of challenges I faced. You know, where credibility challenges were huge. I mean, no one understood what I was trying to do. To begin with, you know, biotech, what the hell is biotech? You are too young to be a business woman. You are too young to run a company. You don't have money? What collateral are you going to give us? I have none. Now these were the kind of things I was up against, right? I mean, so, I know what it is to build credibility, and I think a lot of women have to have that confidence that there are many more women today than there were in 1978. So I don't think there is any reason why you should not have that confidence and that aspiration and that ambition to come and do whatever you want to. And I always believe that women must aspire. They must be ambitious. I have been often told that oh, women are not risk takers. I said, really? Please look at me. I think I have taken the biggest risks in the pharma industry in India. Yeah. So I think it's not true. These are myths. We have to bust those myths. Because I think every woman has potentially that risk-taking ability, that ambition, and the drive to achieve whatever she wants. But I think you have to break free from societal stereotypes. Societal stereotypes as well as the obligations that we put ourselves into.

Well, no, because you know, I always used to think that I will never age, and I always used to think that oh, am I really 50? Am I really 60? Oh my god, I am 70. So I think when I reached the age of 70, I said, oh my god, I better think about who after me. Fortunately, I have a very, very talented family. Okay, I have Claire, who is got everything and more than what I have in myself, because you know, she is a biotech entrepreneur who is very successful. I handed the reins of the company to her in Boston. She's made it into a great success. I you know, she is from credentials point of view, she beats me hollow. Because she is an MIT grad undergrad. She is a PhD from Stanford in immuno-oncology. She has done her MBA from Stanford. She's worked at Third Rock Ventures. I mean, she has a great CV. But I said the CV is not enough. Let me see how you build a company. Hmm. And so that's why I told her, earn your stripes, and she's earned it. So once she did that, I felt she is the worthy successor. And I also have a brilliant nephew who is an AI guru from Caltech. Hmm. And we all, you know, I said, this is what I want to do. How do we work it out? And everyone said, look, Claire is the worthy successor. So I just felt that rather than leaving it till the end, I think Claire needs to first get on to the board, and then basically spend several years with me, understanding the Biocon business, the Biocon culture, and making sure that she delivers on what I will leave behind.

I think, you know, the government has given the biggest opportunity for the pharma sector to move into biopharma. And I think the country cannot just have one Biocon. It must have many many more such companies that build a very strong biopharma ecosystem. I am very confident it will happen over the next five or ten years. I hope in five years. And I think the message I would like to give to anyone listening to this is, as a country, we have so much potential. We have so much talent. There are new technologies, and we must be amidst those new technologies driving the future for this country. And for that, we must have a much greater risk appetite to invest in these new areas, these new technologies. Because that's the future of India. That's the future of the world. And we can't miss it. And we can't miss that. We just cannot miss.

No, no, I am an element of fun. But you know why he said that? Because Sudha and I always go out together and don't include him. [laughs] So, he is feeling left out. So, I think Sudha and I, he keeps thinking that we are having a party. And we do, I mean, we do get together because she is as much fun as I am. And we have great times together. And I think he is a bit envious. So, he keeps calling us party girls.

You are, you are. I will vouch for that. You are a lot of fun. But you know, this is what I want. And with that, very often, as women, you are sort of boxed into templates, into stereotypes of what you should do, what you can do, what you should do. There is so much scrutiny, so much judgment. How have you sort of bypassed all of that? Does it bother you in the initial years? Does it bother you today?

I think every one of us has to be authentic. I am me. I mean, that's the way I am. Take it or leave it. You know. That's a good line. I am me. Take it or leave it.

Thank you so much. It's a pleasure. I am a big fan of Shariin, by the way.